i made some quick test changes to the leader board, split some categories, added some for Emu but used the "Show All>>" feature so they aren't all default viewed when opening the leader board.

This way we can have 2 lines of Platforms without it looking like an ugly mess and Emu runs aren't hidden behind a filter within the leader board itself, with this they will be separate.

I can change the ordering of whats shown/ Isn't shown and it can always change depending on the activity of the platforms.

Another thing i wanted to bring up is the Hard Mode Sub Category, is this really ever gonna be active? Carcinogen originally added it but does anyone else want it?

Personally i would prefer just "Any%" "Knife Only" as Sub cats and keep hard mode as a filter option like it always was instead of a Sub category.

Last thing i want to bring up is inactive mods. We have mods that have done nothing for a long time and tbh they just don't need to be there. It'd be nice to replace them with active runners that could co-exist and work with the current active mods.

Thoughts?

Hard mode/Nightmare mode is only available for PC and Dreamcast, correct.

By inactive mods i mean mods that have had no interaction with the game by speedrunning, Verifying runs or gotten involved with the game in any way. They may be active on the website but aren't actively doing anything with this game. Srwatcher is a good example to use.

Completely agree that PSP/PS Emu could co-exist in the same category just depends what Emu runners have to say about it. Currently though there is only a 12 second gap between the top times for PSP/PS Emu so it's definitely something to consider.

I like the changes so far. If PS3 or N64 ever become more active then sure showing it by default would be easy to do.

Regarding Hard Mode, I guess it could be better off as a difficulty variable instead of full categories, but anyways I feel this is something the actual Hard Mode runners need to thoroughly discuss.

PSP/Emu can co-exist in the same category like in the other REs, the difference in loading times (if there's any which I doubt) is small enough to allow this. I would encourage to use only 1 specific emu like in RE1 though.

The main reason i bring up the Hard mode sub category is because it was never fully discussed before being added and most of the Hardmode runs on the current leader board were migrated from the wiki and not much has been added since then. Also only 2 versions of the game have it but it's shown for all platforms which we can't change. But either way we should wait until we at least get some input from someone that has done hard mode

PsxFin has been the recommended Emu for a while and it should probably stay that way now, since kasumarii is very close to PSP times and in some cases beaten PSP with that Emu, It's also in the rules that it is recommended. It'd also be nice if we could get an autosplitter for PSEmu since PC and dolphin have one it'd make sense to have one for PS Emu aswell, If i get time i'll look into it.

I don't know why Hard mode was added, did anyone ask for it? Does anyone currently/recently run it?

Being as RE2 has 4 scenarios, whenever a sub category is added it is in multiples of 4, with this in mind I think sub categories should be kept to a minimum.

The leaderboard looks fairly tidy, I hope we don't go down the route of meme categories that will spoil that, rocket launcher % welfare record anyone?

So in 2 months we went from this: https://s13.postimg.org/yie3j7ozb/GC_Leon_A.png

To this: https://i.gyazo.com/ab58a4100236ac3e6988350289f735ba.jpg

I dont think anyone will disagree when I say that it used to look alot better. Board was setup so each category was based on the game and not the hardware to minimize the amount of boards and it would be ridiculous to suggest the opposite. If it went by hardware then a runner could play the same game on different consoles because of backwards compatibility and have 3 times for playstation and 2 times for gamecube by using the same disc.

Subcategory for Knife Only was requested so the Knife runners could be displayed easier which is a valid point so it was added despite that the look of the board would take a small hit. Then we also added a subcategory for Hard Mode, not many people ran Hard Mode so it was not as demanding as Knife Only but in the end it was added for the same reason we added Knife Only and the look of the board started to look worse.

And now we come to the emulator runs... Emulator have been displayed as hidden by default so console and emulator runners could have their correct rankings on their individual profiles. Adding yet another subcategory for Console/Emulator would make the board look even worse then it already does. Moving emulator into the Platform Subcategory does works, it doesnt make the board look any worse and people get their emulator leaderboard, I still disagree that this is the way to go and it would be better if it stayed as it is.

Now this isnt the only thing that has changed, now the PSN category (PS3 and PSP) are going to be seperated and PSP merged with Playstation Emulator? I dont see a objectively valid reason at all to do this. Like I stated in the beginning all the categories were based on the game version, now it will be mixed and the categories wont be based on the same filosofy for lack of a better word. Just because PSP outperforms the PS3 in IGT isnt a valid reason to seperate them and it's subjective as hell. I dont like the fact that it is this way but thats the way it is, they both play the same version and should therefor be on the same leaderboard.

The only way to truly satisfy everybody would be to have the platforms as tabs and everything else as subcategories. This way you can add subcategories that are exclusive to some of the platforms like Hard Mode which will prevent empty leaderboards on the platforms that doesnt have Hard Mode. Hell you could even add a region subcategory for the consoles cause im sure that someone in the future is gonna suggest that, cause PAL will have the WR and you can only beat it with a PAL run. Imagine that having a "WR" for the PAL region...

Lastly about the mods. Yes for a long period time me and Steven have basically been the only ones that have taken care of this board. Lots of times when other mods have verified runs we had to double check it cause alot of the times it turned out that there was no video of the run, wrong time submitted, no IGT timer on screen for PC runs etc. srwatcher, Pyman, SephJul, I dont have anything against these guys at all but if they dont use their swords then they dont need them. I've unmodded myself i think twice now cause I lost interest of the game, speedrunning in general or just of being a mod. And that's what I think everybody should follow. If there's any new mods added to this game then dont make them Super Mods cause we already have enough of them + it will be much easier to unmod them if they become inactive.

Hard Mode makes more sense as a variable, seeing that it's only on 2 (?) platforms. And because the tabs are categories not platforms, there's no way to remove it for those platforms that don't have it, similar to how we don't have arrange mode for PC in RE1,

As for Emu. If I had to vote (despite the fact I'll never run PS Emu on RE2), I would go forward with Bizhawk / Mednafen (basically low intensive version of Bizhawk, same Core) / Dolphin, but that's just me. PSXfin suffers from same issues as ePSXe does, in all honesty. Bizhawk / Mednafen / Dolphin are all shooting for some kind of stability in accuracy. Emulators like PSXfin, ePSXe and so forth do not have this goal in mind, and that is why they will always suck for speedruns. Hell, only reason we chose PSXjin for RE1 is because when it was chosen it flat out ran the game the best and was basically the predecessor to Bizhawk. Now Bizhawk is allowed alongside it. Mednafen is, of course a great alternative for people with PCs of lesser strength because it's basically Bizhawk but without all the shit that will grind your PC to a crawl.

As far as Knife Only goes, I don't care myself which it is. I only have 1 horrid run on there, but I was fine with the way it was before but this works too. Either. What is and isn't a meme category isn't really for anyone to decide though. Some speedrunners (not only in RE, but in general) share the view that only the fastest matters (which would be each scenario done on Any% / Normal, barring rocket), so by that logic everything else is a meme. Just saying. No one needs to go and say what someone else decides to choose to run is a meme.

Darazanjoll, according to your reasoning, the PSN version (which is literally an unmodified rip of the original discs) should be also compared to PS1/PS2 disc.

@FurryWulfz i've never looked into Bizhawk but i've heard good things about it. The only thing that could be a problem with it is speed, correct me if i'm wrong but bizhawk tries to be as accurate as possible to the official hardware right? because in that case the current best time on Emu (PsxFin) will never be touched by a Bizhawk runner.

Hopefully they are similar though, more options is good

@zenix No it doesn't. If it did then emulator could also be listed with the disc runs without anything to separate them. Difference is that PS disc is physical where PSN/Emu isn't.

By that one could argue that PSN (PS3 & PSP) + PS Emu could share the same board. I haven't really put much thought into it.

Well you can play on emu directly off your original disc so it does not need to be "digital", so yeah we're back to square one.

@zenix That's a good point.

Physical Disc/Digital was a bad word for it cause using a disc on emulator would still fall under emulator.

@ste

Yeah. Issue mainly with PSXfin from a speedrunning perspective is the game will just run at an unfixed rate, which is why people running on emulators like ePSXe / PSXfin always get varying RTA. Not just in RE but in other games, too. Different releases of PSXfin will likely also run it slower/faster than others. Similar to ePSXe.

Whilst Bizhawk and Mednafen run it far slower than other emulators, most of the way the game is ran is controlled by the emulator itself because it tries to emulate lag/loads accurate to PS1, like you said. In the end this would make emulator runs slower than PS2 FDS, but in terms of taking two runs and saying: "Yes, this run is better than this run.", it's far harder when using PSXfin, and would be more about how their plugins are setup and their PC rig.

In terms of moderation, you should probably either contact the mods themselves and ask them to remove themselves. In the case of being unable to contact them, just ask Pac.

The issue with inactive mods is that new runners are most likely going to ask moderators for help or queries on running the game. Which isn't exactly helpful if mods aren't up to touch with the game, the boards, the rules and so forth. Just explain this to Pac. I mean it's not out of bad intention, so I wouldn't see why he wouldn't help you. There's a thread for this issue in 'The Site' section, also. It's like I said, mods shouldn't only be people who run the game, but also people who are willing and want to interact with and better the boards on here. The fact it's only Dara, Ste and Zenix that have interacted with this forum for a while kinda shows that. Not pulling punches or calling anyone out, but it puts pressure on certain mods to always handle situations with the boards, which just should not be a thing.

Personally, Dara, I never understood why you de-modded yourself because whilst you did lose interest in the game you're still one of the most knowledgeable and helpful runners of RE2 on this board. As long as you care for the game and board, that's all that really matters, not like you need to run it once a week or anything. :p

Psxfin seems to already be the emulator that people use for ps1 emu runs, atleast for this game. Adding Bizhawk to the PSP/Emu Sub category would be really unfair to the people that go with Bizhawk since it is much slower than PSP and PsxFin, not sure how to handle that. Since we have no way to choose which emulator was used during the submission process.

I made attempts to contact the inactive mods 2 days ago just waiting to hear back, otherwise yeah i'll give pac or kirk a message.

As for the Emu Sub categories themselves, since we aren't getting much feedback it'd probably be a good idea to just go ahead and move the runs over to them soon, maybe then it will motivate and bring awareness that Emu is a thing for this game.

¤ Moved Emu to their own Subcategories ¤ Added 2 new mods, FurryWulfz & Roofress, picked by me, Dara & Zenix ¤Still no reply from any inactive mods so if someone wants to msg Kirk, Pac or anyone about removing them go ahead

¤ I'm moving house tomorrow so i will be inactive for 2-3 weeks, but we have 4 active mods now and 5 when i regain internet access

@FurryWulfz: Mods that have been inactive for a long time. Like not done verifications, joining in discussions or just been offline on SRC.

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