Is there any reason why my posts was ignored by the staff? Regardless of everything, the policy makes no sense whatsoever. You're allowing the top 3 people to keep their times when they haven't uploaded proof for it either, but didn't keep my old time that was on the leaderboard just because I improved it. The worst part of it all is that you guys are treating me like I'm guilty of cheating. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Rookie, the reason your old time was removed was because you edited it, instead of submitting a new run.
I'm well aware that Rookie is a known and proven Time Trialer. However, that doesn't exempt him from the proof policy here, especially considering how minimalistic it is. The proof policy isn't there for me, it's to respond to the speedrun.com MK7 community's desire for legitimacy in their leaderboards. Most of the runners here are not part of the Time Trial community, and as such have little to no knowledge of players like Rookie. Enforcing a minimum of proof at the top of these leaderboards ensures that newcomers and outsiders aren't misled into thinking that the top times are illegitimate.
Adding Gogoku's run seems like a decent compromise for the time being. I'll contact him and see if he's ok with it being added here.
It's not minimalistic when you're asking someone to access a $200 Cap Card to record over an hour of gameplay, on a game that isn't even a heavily played category. That's not even close.
Again, there isn't even a majority here who desires this proof policy whatsoever. It was literally jtmagicman making this thread, getting one like, and the rest of us seemingly disagreeing. I don't even think the guy actually takes MK games somewhat seriously at all. No offense, but he shouldn't be dictating what happens on here. His speedrun doesn't use a combo that's even close to being optimal for a speedrun. It'd be like me doing a Gen 1 Pokemon run and using a Caterpie over Nidoking and questioning the players ahead.
Also, the legitimacy of our leaderboards is only decreasing when you deny legitimate times. If anything, we should be encouraging more players to submit runs for this category. Forcing people to record their records though is never going to make this a reasonable thing to happen though. I understand having a record requirement for MK8, where the game has taken off on here and has had much more competition. More people have streaming equipment for that game also, including myself. I really don't see how it's that hard to allow my time to be on the leaderboards when it's honestly pretty obvious that it's a legitimate time.
On a side note, why would anyone submit a time when they can just edit it? It looks weird to have yourself on the leaderboards twice. It's an absolute paradox to delete times only if updated but leave them alone if not. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Honestly host a poll. And make sure it's known what both arguments are. If the majority after a week legitimately want to force us to record hour long runs for a dead game with no competition, I'll shut up about it, but still be disappointed of course. And also, every run with no proof ahead of the first time with proof shouldn't be counted or they all should be. If you're going to delete my time because I updated it with no proof, you should've deleted it before I even updated because the policy makes no sense.
I am originally from the Pokémon community as JT is. It's true that everyone needs a video proof for every single run, even for a 10h run in Red which would be a terrible time. My first ORAS run (4h02, nearly 1 hour behind BT) got rejected even with splits, because I didn't have a video proof for it. I completely agree with the fact that a 3DS Capture Card is a waste of money if the only thing you use it for is MK7 runs. But come on, just turn on your brain for one second... -_- Some people here are thinking a video request is stupid. Isn't it stupid for Pokémon too then ? So why are Pokémon speedrunners ok with this rule ? Take a look at what happened in the Pokémon community when Exarion came out of nowhere 2 years ago with a new BT, beating Werster (who was the best Pokémon speedrunner at that time) and his great 1h51 : http://forums.pokemonspeedruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=283 . Even with a video, almost everyone thought it was a TAS. Even a video proof wasn't enough for preventing people from being suspicious about a new BT. So, how not to be suspicious, at least for a second, when you see someone coming only with splits to take 1st place ?
I know everyone here trust the others' times without the need of a video, because it has always been working this way. Organizing shiny hunting competitions also learned me to trust the other members of a community based on a simple picture of a (3)DS/GBA screen. But with that kind of reasoning, some random guy can come, sumbit a run with bad splits, some other runs with better splits, and finally a 20 seconds improvement of BT with splits that save 2 or 3 seconds on every Cup, without even having played the game a single time in his entire life.
Nobody wants anyone here to stop trusting other runners based on their splits. JT only wanted mods to start requiring a video proof for NEW BT's, when some here are thinking "lol that guy asks us to remove all times without video so his recorded time that is bad becomes BT and we have to pay $250 for a Capture Card to be able to appear on the leaderboard again". Don't be that stupid.
PS : Talking about mods... Lafungo, King, if you read this when you get back, can you give someone a sword please ? 3 weeks are a bit long of a waiting time for a run to be validated... (I don't ask for mod, validate my own runs is something I don't want to do for obvious reasons) I know everyone needs to rest at some point, but someone should be able to validate new runs when both of you take a break :v
Comparing MK7 to a Pokemon game is absolutely ludicrous. Don't play the "don't be stupid card" if you're going to make a point that isn't smart itself.
Pokemon is actually a very large and popular game for speedrunning. Of course people want you to have videos for that; it's actually competitive. A time of 27th in that game is more impressive than first place in this game. What's also different about Pokemon is that running the game is literally all there is to the category. You could be the best pokemon battler / player in the world and it wouldn't mean anything in regard to speedrunning because it's completely different. In Mario Kart, speed is the name of the game. There are actually other ways to show off your skill than simply streaming your time. You can play competitively online, in clan wars, or even simply TT. I'm not trying to be arrogant. But I'm not a random player at all. I played MK7 competitively at a really high level just like Gogoku (whose run is now on the leaderboards and thank god I can actually submit my time now because of it), upload many TTs over the years that if anything will show that my time is definitely suitable for someone of my TT level (considering Gogoku and I were TT rivals at one point, though he was slightly better) and on top of that I've played and streamed runs now for both MKW & MK8 because an elgato actually isn't a waste of money and I can actually use it for other stuff too). I really don't see how people wouldn't trust a global moderator of the main competitive Mario Kart website, and also a helper of the TT community at mkboards.com also when I've posted literally tons of evidence that I'm already a skilled player myself. Again, I would be COMPLETELY fine with not being accepted even with all of my credibility considered without a video if this were a game like Red & Blue. It isn't though. This category is not competitive at all, it's underplayed (even for a MK game standard it's underplayed), I only do it cuz it's Mario Kart, and I could crank out a time within a minute of Gogoku's on my first try if I wanted to again, but there'd be no point because if I beat his time I wouldn't be accepted again.
Regardless this is the end of my ramblings. My time should be accepted now anyway since a better one was finally posted, so I have no complaining left to do anymore. I won't go for any improvements simply because I don't want to deal with my time being deleted anymore if I do happen to beat the top time right now. Just know that this game and community are completely different than what standards you're expecting of it. This isn't a popular speedrunning game, it's not Red/Blue, and if you're going to require players to use video captures for a 5 year old nearly dead game on a handheld you'll only be triggering the nail in the coffin and killing it completely.
Apologies for the delay, I've added Gogoku's run (as well as its its misc. category components) and cleared the pending approval queue.
As I mentioned in my second post in this thread, I think that it would be a good idea for there to be one or two dedicated MK7 mod(s). No one stepped up since then though. If you're interested, please read the opening post of this thread and reply there.
Also, if you don't have the desire and/or money to purchase a 3DS capture card, you can always go the "old-school" route and film your play with a webcam. There's plenty of precedent for doing this in the Mario Kart community: a lot of MKDS wi-fi matches were filmed this way (and these videos were often as long as, if not longer than, an MK7 individual cup run), and top MKDS and MK7 players have done live TT videos to get a proper camera angle for the gameplay (since replays are garbage in both games) and to show their hand movements when they play.
Maybe some day I'll record cup runs if it helps prove legitimacy. I have a webcam, it's just an extremely awkward angle which makes it hard to play. Definitely couldn't do it for an hour.
Let's look at this from multiple points of view.
The requirement point of view:
This is generally what most of speedruns.com is like. Video required. It doesn't matter who you are, you need a video. This website is for listings of players marking their best times in an endless competition.
The proof-as-necessary point of view:
The old ruling Lafungo made regarding the video requirement for new WRs fits here. If you had the dedication to go as far as to post a new WR, you would want a video of it, wouldn't you? Like Lafungo said, it's easily possible to get a webcam (my suggestion is to get one with a strap, so you can put it over your forehead) and at least a decent enough one for a good price nowadays.
The democratic point of view.
This is generally the community of MK7. Though, Speedrun.com has an option to filter out video-runs and non-video runs as well. Is it really that much of a pain in the first place to deal with this? Anyone can easily see the best video if they decide to filter it. so, my question is, why does this all matter in the first place? The fact of the matter is, due to the unavailability of recording options on the 3DS, most of the 3DS gaming community just don't make videos of it.
In my opinion, we need to just roll with an act of segregation that involves non-video WRs and video WRs, because there's no chance we're going to get these views to co-operate anytime soon.
The issue with mod candidates is the fact that because of these varied points of view, you're not going to be able to appeal to everyone. If we pick a mod that requires videos, everyone who cannot afford to compete will probably disappear. If we pick a mod who allows videos to not be necessary, we start to irritate long-time Speedrun.com users. and if you pick two mods with different points of views, they will argue!
if you get a really good time without a video, you should at least show your splits
also, i think you don't even need to hold the webcam in front of the screen, anything that proves it's legit should be fine, even if that means having a video you can barely see at all. I know that probably sounds hypocritical because I have no videos, but I suck at this game and would never get a WR.
Here's 2 things I think could and probably should happen, the first one is that if your time is under a certain time you should need video proof, or we could make it so that if your in the top 5 or 10 you need video proof, this way people who don't want to run the game competitively don't have to record if they don't want to.
WR vid being provided is understandable, it's just annoying to record every single attempt. especially since I'm closing in on top 4 banana cup and can't even find a proper setup to gorilla cam it :P
The Flower Cup WR is most likely fake, the glitch hardly saves 5 seconds. I'll have a couple more attempts at it but right now I am positive it is impossible. The submitter probably made a typo or something.
I'll practice without recording, if I do beat it, I'll record another run.
it's better than speedrunner123's supposed "WR" of sub 8. That was totally BS
That does go to show that we do need video proof though cause that run was up for pretty darn long and was only now realized to be a typo on my end, I really do think that at least all wr runs should be recorded because it just makes sense, it shouldn't matter who the person is they should have to have proof for a wr, it might be a pain in the ass but we need that validation otherwise we'll never truly know if they actually got that time or are just being assholes and submitting fake runs.
Thanks for stepping in, I was really confused as to how such a time was accomplished. I don't have a video of my 9:46 but I'll run this game again soon.
