It sounds like you're mostly appealing to political conspiracy and a slippery slope. Wolsk seems to be in favor of potential runner inclusivity/board growth and the whole "any% should be the fastest run" thing, which are common sentiments, at least (although board growth is more of a newer-game thing, imo).
Surely, though, there should be runs out there already? This conversation seems mostly hypothetical... What if people show up, what if this or that board is created... When these arguments crop up, sometimes the mod compromise is "show me people running this category" and then when you make the board, you have some videos already to populate it with; You have the interest built in because there are already active runners. So who are these runners?
Conspiracy or not, when an outsider is pushing for something they haven't run, it's a reason for suspicion. I'm also appealling to that the community might feel slighted "true any%" would be considered speedrunning. I personally think it'd be a laughable way to speedrun Boshy whether it's technically the fastest or not. I know Yagamoth never bothered releasing a video (unless I missed it, but I doubt it). And like I said, there's also a way to start a savefile and change the difficulty later, but I'm 99% sure nobody's going to want to run No WW on Ez and then change it after beating Solgryn. Boshy is a buggy game with mechanics that aren't necessarily desirable on speedrun leaderboards, even though technically possible.
No, there are no runs. There are no runners of WW except for BBF, but that's NG+ without the Dark Boshy Only category modifier.
That's how absurd this discussion is. The only reason a run was posted is because I went out of my way to do Wolsk's job for him.
Which takes me back to the conspiracy angle: if I wanted, I could probably puke out a run of "true any%" in 10 minutes or so. If people are suddenly going to create submissions for this farce of a thread, rest assured it's not going to be organic and unprompted by the drama stemming from this discussion.
Hachi, you are the one creating drama and expressing your opinions in a way that talks down to everyone you disagree with. Everyone else in this thread has been very civil and willing to discuss the topic (with the exception of Velato who was being hostile in response to you doing the same in the thread he created). Get over yourself and learn how to have a discussion with others. I will not be responding to you any further.
It would be fun, but very meme. Anso seems to agree with me the main leaderboards here should be for serious categories. If an extension leaderboard doesn't get approved, it probably shouldn't be added. Co-op discussion thread: https://www.speedrun.com/iwbtboshy/forums/kizau
I was going to not say anything about this topic at all, because I am detached from Boshy right now, but this thread is stupid.
Add it as Misc Category and call it a day. Vela isn't an outsider, he has been an active viewer in my stream for years and is a speedrun ethusiast. The only reason I never bothered adding it is because I seem to have one of the only recorded runs of it and it is really (really really really) unfun to run.
The name should just be any%. Obviously on EZ-mode because it's the fastest way to get to the credits from the start of the game. Shouldn't have to be mentioned.
This thread is by no means stupid. It shows what lengths non-speedrunners and possible leaderboard collectors will go to to abuse power, bringing up nonsense about gatekeeping and similar hogwash. The only reason I raised a shitstorm ITT is because the SMs (Wolsk/Naloa) started contradicting what they admitted in DMs - that they aren't qualified as non-runners to decide on matters affecting the speedrun. (Can prove that.)
If BBF thinks a "misc" true any% is a good idea, that's obviously much more respectable than coming from someone who's never submitted a run. That includes someone like Velatoget.
I think the category shouldn't be added until there are at least 3 speedrunners of it with at least 2 submissions each. I'd suggest to make a new thread for it, and post the runs there. The situation hasn't really changed since you'd run this ~8 years ago, BBF. There are no runs. If our aim is to preserve history, this thread works just fine for that.
Adding the category has consequences because it permits WW (Wrong Warp). WW can be utilized by binding Shoot to Reset and shooting the savebox or savefile copying using the Windows GUI.
Logically, WW also opens up possibilities for other categories such as No Major Skips (e.g., banning unlocking the bosses in the boss rush room) where you'd utilize the warp in each world.
I've taken the time to glitchhunt strats for a non-Sonic "true any%", which was previously unfinishable as quickly. That should provide a better perspective on how to deal with WW categories. (I think not including a WW modifier to name the category would be a mistake.)
See the video below for the complete route of a non-NG+ any% with yellow Boshy.
(Notice the irony in me finding new strats for this horse crap while Wolsk checks the forums once a year. Thank you for your "hard work", de-modding me, and refusing to work this out in DMs.)
You need to chill the fuck out.
"It shows what lengths non-speedrunners and possible leaderboard collectors will go to to abuse power"
Speedrunning is a hobby and not some super serious competition, get off your high horse.
Appreciate the bluntness, BBF! Even if I shouldn't. It is certainly a breath of fresh air compared to spiels about inclusivity and gatekeeping, but it doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. It is anyone's right to criticize how a leaderboard is managed, and I've definitely not made personal grievances the center focus here.
I will say, though, considering civility was previously requested, your tone is far from that. I'd ask to reign in that kind of behavior, even if just for the sake of remaining courteous to one another. I absolutely agree that a hobby is not a serious competition, but hobbies are just as vulnerable to power imbalances and mismanagement. I think it's best to leave it at that as far as off-topic tangents go.
I do think the route you shared is cool and interesting, and non-NG+ is generally in the spirit of what we've been calling true Any%.
Since a run of NG+ Any% already exists, I think that'd be quite fine too. It also showcases more of what the game has to offer, with a unique run/character choice.
In the spirit of Boshy speedruns, all existing categories are NG+ or have a character pre-selected. It would seem most consistent to allow for that with a "true Any%" category as well.
Your point here is also in the spirit of Any% across all types of games: "WW can be utilized by binding Shoot to Reset and shooting the savebox"
This, generally, is not: "or savefile copying using the Windows GUI", because speedruns generally rely on what is capable of being done in-game, not external to the in-game experience.
Any% means taking the quickest approach, so EZ logically makes more sense.
But whatever you guys want to do is fine. My thoughts are more in-line with documentation.
So for reference, and for documentation's sake on SRC, here's BBF's run of NG+ Any%:
With that, I've said my piece, and I'm sure you're all sick of this thread. Do with the info what you want.
BBF's run was already posted on page 1. "I seem to have one of the only recorded runs of it" - BBF's words, not mine. Player activity should be the deciding factor. If you want it added, play it, and if it makes sense to add - it's fair to compete in and easy to moderate (load remover where?), it may just get added. Leaderboards are most probably for the purposes of competition, not necessarily documentation, so it doesn't make much sense to create clutter for the sake of a single run.
Arguing using the filesystem to move/copy/delete the savefiles is disallowed in most communities does not feel like a valid argument. For example, speedruns in general allow to restart the game/reset the console/etc. The time it takes to do that is factored into the total completion time - that's just the nature of RTA - but to do that on PC, you have to interact with Windows, so re-launching the game externally would itself also be part of the speedrun and generally allowed (hypothetically speaking - such strats are always possible). I personally have recently run 2 games that interact with Windows externally because restarting speeds up timers or manipulates the RNG. If "interacting with Windows" were arbitrarily disallowed, you can launch two instances of Boshy and WW that way, so deciding where the optimization ends for the WW categories is not that straightforward.
Any% means taking the quickest approach for the given category. No WW is separated by difficulty. There's no reason that WW wouldn't be.
