"Well we do not care about you, so stop."
This only shows how cancerous this community is. Someone comes up with valid arguments about an upcoming rules change and because that person is not a part of this community and never ran the game, you immediately dismiss everything he/she says without even thinking about it for a second. But hey, you are the mod of this game, so you must know what's best and only you know who has "information" about this game, right? :) Please don't be that naive and arrogant.
I'm gonna stop now, because I see this is pointless. Instead of discussing F4, the only thing I'm getting here are personal attacks.
It's funny how we can give this a MONTH and after everything is over and being put into play THEN people have an issue with it. If you want your opinion to be heard and counted upon, i believe being at least present in the community, not active, not persistent, just present, in the community is needed. Why would we go out of our way to contact you when you haven't gone out of your way to care about or be apart of this game's community?
Many of us have voted on this, including people "not currently doing runs" because those people are still A PART OF THE COMMUNITY.
Bl00dThunder Im not sure what to say to this other than it makes me sad. You were not contacted because everytime i was about to mentioned the game you would brush it off, made it seem like you really didn't care.
"Does the intro to this game suck to do every time? Sure, but it is still part of the game where time can be saved/lost. Don't like sitting through it everytime? Just don't run the game."
This is something i could see myself saying, only problem is that it's Fallout 4. It's a bad dead speedgame. The only ones mad enough to care don't feel like doing the intro is worth their time, and this is a hobby. They can skip the intro with or without us and the leaderboard, i as the only mod that cares has to take action, i did a poll over 2 months ago, i waited a long time for everyone to have time to vote. Then i made this post, i wanted it to be visible and scrutinized.
"2a) The other games you bring up start from a save file after a cutscene/auto-scroller where you have no control" Half Life 1, you have to move and walk around and talk to people... Fallout 4, you have to move and walk around and talk to people...
Again there are more games, Deux Ex Human Revolution. These are some of the most popular PC speedruns. We all pick when we want a run to start, this is a video game. We route and run it for friendly competition and fun, to make friends. Not enemies, drama... It's supposed to be fun, everyone draws the line somewhere. I feel sad that some people actually think this is about getting record in a game like this. These kinds of reactions should be more applicable to big games where people run them actively, that's just my thought on it though. I wish you had been there months back to see the original requests and my early responses to them, you would see how much plans have changed.
"What qualifies as "FULL" control of a character, once outside of the house you have the ability to walk, sprint, crouch, jump, talk, and pickup items (there are none to pickup in the intro but that's not the point). "
You cannot pick up items actually, this is what happens in Warp%. you are still the pre-war Character, you cannot pick stuff up / use any items at all (They finish the game by entering a power armor and meleeing people.) So we have basically defined "full control of the character" walking, running, crouching, jumping and picking up items and interacting with PC's / Armor / locked doors.
"Why discount the opinions of those who don't agree with you just because they don't run this game. Why even bother making this post if you don't care what anyone besides 'runners' think? You apparently did all this voting in the Discord server but now you come to speedrun.com to post about the issue of timing? I'm even more glad I left the Discord server now, I'd rather not be associated with such elitism. "
It was all dependant on how such a response was given, they only guy who came here basically said "you are cheaters SDA". Im not sure how im supposed to reply to that. Your reply has been the first one that somewhat seems to be a nice one. Although you are calling us elitists and threatening to leave, which again im sorry that you feel that way. There are legitimate discussions to be had, i have tried to do right as a mod and do what all the runners want.
"If you cared about the views of 'runners' why was I never contacted as someone who put a ton of time and effort into bringing down the time? Just because I'm not currently doing runs? Neither are some of the other people that seem to have had an input into this discussion. There are tons of ways to contact me besides only in the Fo4 Discord, yet I never saw any word of this. "
I have surely written about Fallout 4 on your stream, sometimes it might just be because it get's lost in the chat. I get that, but other times i knew you didn't care. :(
The shortlist of games i provided are but a few of such games though, sure some of them have more autoscrolling. But some of them actually has tech, rng, skill to some degree.(You can lose runs in Skyrims autoscroller) In the larger scale of things, would you not have tried out this game if we already started from freezer? I somehow think not. This is a change active runners voted on, mabye i should have pinged everyone who had not run it in a good few months. But that's why after such a long time, it's still not an active rule. We took it slow, we made sure everyone eventually got to know.
I get problems gathering my thoughts in longer replies, it's not that easy to write in English while trying to sound coherent.
What do you want me to do as a mod then, people want to start from the freezer. We can make a new category, have the old any% still standing. Problem then becomes that nobody will play the old any%. Which is not that bad or anything, but this is a video game we play for fun first, whatever else second. Everything becomes arbritrary in the end.
Mabye we didn't handle Ewil the best way we could have, but this thread is not about if we should start from the freezer or not. It's how. Own category, what timing. People who have never ran the game should not have input on how people play and enjoy their video games.
Again i am sad that you feel very strongly about this, it's probably easy to come back and see all this. It might seem sudden to you. But we have been talking about this for a long time. I am glad that you care about the game and feel strongly about it. But we are all generally nice people and we can talk about things without things getting heated. I really want to hammer home that this is about having fun playing video games together.
It really is not easy having the runners of this game call out that they want this, and get yelled at by people who never have played the game or haven't done so in a long time. I have tried to be open to all sources, i have made everything democratic, i have made this forum post so that people know. Section of my original Discord post on the subject in November: "Wasting 10 minutes of your only life on earth to do something impossible to fail that everyone can do should not be mandatory to have fun. I suggest that people who want to start their runs from the freezer may do so, they would have to start their timer at 8:00 so that people who grind the start still has an advantage." With an attached poll under the post, which was then pinned in the Discord. People did not want to start from the freezer at a disadvantage and felt it was splitting hairs even more.
So it would be nice if you could realize that we are all on the same side, we can all talk about anything and there are other solutions.
Starting a run where it should cant be compared to using a 3rd party mod. The mod youre talking about, makes the run less reset heavy. This doesnt change anything other than cutting away 8 minutes between your resets.
That is the stupidest god damn argument I have ever seen. Your comparing a 30-minute section of a game, with MULTIPLE SPLITS in between, and plenty of places for time to be lost, with an 8 minute, what is basically half auto-scroller, and half jumping over a fence?
This is seriously the most ridiculous god damn shit I have ever fucking seen, you are all making me feel sick to my god damn stomach. I came here because the community was relaxed because we played the game and had fun. The ACTIVE COMMUNITY makes a decision that we all agree upon, and two people who COMPLETELY FUCKING STOPPED PLAYING THE GAME COME OUT OF NOWHERE AND BLOW IT OUT OF THE FUCKING WATER.
This is fucking ridiculous, I had so much respect for you two and you've just thrown that all away now, completely ruined this game for me because I'll always associate it with this fucking TEMPER TANTRUM that you guys are throwing over something that doesn't' even fucking AFFECT you, you don't play the game anymore! You've moved on to different games. If you were AT ALL SERIOUS about ANY of this you would have put in your two cents from the get go, but now you're all bent up over it? What, is the prospect of someone POSSIBLY bopping you because of a rule change that intimidating? Are you that upset over something so god damn arbitrary? Jesus christ guys your completely missing the point of all of this.
I'm out of here, it's been fun but I'm not about to be surrounded by the drama of something that was decided and done with just to be drug out of the ditch like a dead deer because people just can't live with something changing for the better.
No need to get angry and rude Asylix. The reason why this is a bigger deal than you might think, is because Bubbles and BT are #1 and #2, both have been record holder and have ran this game for a long time. Their opinions should be treated with respect.
Now, we seem to be on two different pages here BT. You're comparing it to this other game, and I don't really see how the situations compare. On this game we have 8 minutes of something near impossible to fuck up. On your game, you say it's the same as starting the run AFTER you have gotten something which is very RNG heavy. I've seen many people's arguments against this is that we're doing it because it's easier. It's not. You know very well that it's very easy to complete at a solid time 10/10 times, whereas your game here "has a 1-52 chance of spawning per reload, every reload costing roughly 30 seconds." That is a long shot away from what we're trying to do.
Onto you posting quotes from me and Havrd. I like doing this, it's a hobby. On the other hand I wan't to get a competetive time, I believe this is the key element of speedrunning. I do this because it's fun, and because it's friendly competition. I can compare it to playing a sport. Most people probably play this to have fun, but in order to have fun doing it, it has to be competetive. Seeing as there aren't any preset rules which apply to all speedruns, there isn't anything blocking us from doing this, other than individual people's thoughts on the case.
On a heads up, bubbles made it clear in the discord channel that the last vote is finished in midnight EST, which is in a few hours from now I believe. Your and Bubbles' views have been taken into consideration, but the vote about allowing this or not was heavily in favor of allowing it, you two couldn't have impacted it in any way. I'm sorry to see that we didn't let you know. To me and the others initiating this, it seemed clear that you and didn't care about this game anymore. I understand now that we should've let you know earlier, and I'm sorry for this.
I apologize to you BT if this upsets you, or anything I have said upsets ANYONE. At this point, I just want to do runs again without all the confusion as to where to start. You have done a lot for the community, but so have many people that voted towards starting at the freezer. I respect you as a runner and a person in general. A simple disagreement won't change that. But at some point we have to put our foot down and look at the numbers. Why does your position on the leaderboards make your vote anymore valid than me, who has a 1 hour IGT time? You have provided very very valid points, but when we provide legitimately 1 month for anyone who at least somewhat cares about the game, and then when we have it all sorted and are about to make the change, and you THEN have a problem with it, it's a bit aggravating. I apologize for Asylix's reaction, I'm not sure what got into him. Hes a very nice guy and runner in general. But I think at this point we are all aggravated. We all just want to do runs and this new freezer starting point was influencing many inactive runners to want to do runs again as well.
Active runners have gotten into a Discord call and had a reasonable conversation about everyones concerns. "any% no intro" will be it's own sub-category which will be placed under any% as a misc category. This quite arbritrary category is the culmination of everyone's concerns. I would like to thank the Fallout 4 community for trying to keep this discussion civil, eventhough we did not do the best at this. I want to apologize to Ewil for the way he was treated in this forum thread. But this discussion was really not for people who have not ran the game. This is the decision the active players of the game has made the 23.01.17.
This thread is getting locked as it no longer serves a purpose.
