I still don't get it. What would make it more difficult? For somebody with video editing knowledge it is not difficult to fake a desktop and insert that in the video. I think this is rule is exaggerating a bit.
If you fear for somebody using an unfair emulator I'd look into what is happening at the game window. E.g. if you see faster gameplay than should be possible or unexpected framerates, loadtimes, etc.
That was my view of the problem, but others said it's not accurate enough, hence the generic rules.
I'd prefer not to butt in too much into Genesis-category, but I wonder who said capturing the whole desktop would be necessary for verification? I had some private exchanges with Ozymandias when he took charge of the category (very much appreciated!). I recommended creating some rule descriptions as there practically was none. Besides mentioning allowed emulators I also suggested about having possible extra verification rules such as capturing the emulator window and having game audio enabled if that felt necessary.
I'm in agreement with happycamper for the desktop capture to be little bit "exaggerated" and rules should make sense (benefits verification). Probably not a good idea to go too extreme with rules and discourage possible legit runs from being posted, instead of discouraging cheating.
Rules have been unaltered for 8 months, I thought they were agreed.
BTW, it was sardaukar who suggested full desktop capture (not that he's been providing it) and it looked in accordance with the verification you (and me) were looking for. As happycamper says, for people with video editing experience, it's easy to fake the emulator if we only have the window, not much of an improvement over full screen.
Apologies, I assumed you were talking about our chats. I haven't checked those Genesis rules since the initial draft or paid attention to new runs. Also, haven't checked how Fusion displays events, such as displaying key-inputs, saves etc. Basically, deskptop capture doesn't improve usefullness to verification as happycamper said. If window capture doesn't add sufficient benefit, it shouldn't be required either (same as DOS version). But most important is runners agreeing on rules. If so, there should be no exceptions and you are in right to decline runs ofc.
Well, the runners at the time (sardaukar and myself) agreed on this. More precisely, he suggested full-screen, I thought it wasn't necessary and shortly after agreed. Now I think it could still not be enough, but it's the best I can think of.
Regarding "agreement to rules": that is tough to get if a community is not very active. People are sometimes not checking the rules, or maybe only did at some point before the current ruleset was established. So people learn when they overstep the rules and when you make them aware of that. On the other hand, if a community is active, e.g. on a discord it is relatively easy to vote how to establish rules & categories.
Random thought on what more can be done: Some emulators allow using scripts to record logs. I've heard that you could use this to make a "speedrun log". A cheater would then need to fake the log too. Which I guess is pretty hard if they don't know what would be log entries of valid runs. But you'd need to: a.) know how to script this & b.) know what are good indicators of a "real" run that are hard to fake when cheating. No clue how to do this, or if this is even possible with the emulator you use.
There's an option to log video in Kega. I haven't seen a proper log option in the menus, though.
Я поделюсь здесь своим мнением по поводу правил игры. Запись окна действительно была хорошей идеей, но появилась проблема. У меня при записи окна записываются всего 20 кадров, игра выдает 60 кадров на перемещение курсора в игре. Но в игровом режиме можно записывать все 60 кадров, но без окна эмулятора. Я предлагаю ввести новое простое правило: в эмуляторе "обязательно включать FPS" который находится в левом нижнем углу. Этого достаточно для доказательства того что игра была в эмуляторе Kega_Fusion, так как в других эмуляторах нет такого отображения FPS, и подделать его очень сложно, так как он отображается по вверх игры, а не просто сверху, как шапка эмулятора.
Я все еще не понимаю.Что может усложнить задачу?Для человека, разбирающегося в видеомонтаже, нетрудно подделать рабочий стол и вставить его в видео.Я думаю, что это правило немного преувеличивает. - Это правильное замечание, действительно, если человек разбирается в видеомонтаже, то он легко может любой эмулятор засунуть в окно Kega, но он не сможет добавить FPS в нижний левый угол, как на эмуляторе Kega_Fusion.
This is the machine translation of the deleted messages from Sardaukar:
"I will share here my opinion about the rules of the game. Recording the window was actually a good idea, but there was a problem. When I record a window, only 20 frames are recorded, the game produces 60 frames for moving the cursor in the game. But in game mode you can record all 60 frames, but without the emulator window. I propose to introduce a new simple rule: in the emulator “be sure to enable FPS”, which is located in the lower left corner. This is enough to prove that the game was in the Kega_Fusion emulator, since other emulators do not have such an FPS display, and it is very difficult to fake it, since it is displayed at the top of the game, and not just on top, like the emulator header."
"I still don't get it. What could make it more difficult? For someone who knows video editing, it's not hard to fake a desktop and insert it into the video. I think this rule is exaggerating a bit. - This is a correct remark, indeed, if a person understands video editing, then he can easily put any emulator into the Kega window, but he will not be able to add FPS to the lower left corner, as on the Kega_Fusion emulator."
I can't verify that "other emulators do not have such an FPS display". This idea was already shared via PM by him, and not in the final draft of the rules.
Значит надо проверить другие эмуляторы, можно ли там вывести FPS поверх игры, и гре он будет отображаться, какой шрифт и тд. Я не думаю что в другом эмуляторе будет точно также отображаться FPS.
This means you need to check other emulators, whether it is possible to display FPS over the game, and it will be displayed in the game, what font, etc. I don't think that FPS will be displayed exactly the same in another emulator.
Recording of FPS counter sounds like a good idea. Thanks 0zymandias for translation. Communication should preferrably be done in English so people can quickly understand what is said without having to do translation themselves. @Sardaukar пожалуйста, используйте перевод на английский в будущем
Real Time Attack should be counted from the first frame the cursor appears (in full-game runs, the same frame as the Yes button press), to the first frame the cursor disappears, on the recorded video. If we ever get down to frame counting, it's the video frames that should matter, not the in-game frames.
Talk about thread necromancy, The above quote is from the start.
Funny how, because of the randomness in disappearing, a worse run can have shorter RTA. In Ordos 8, my best RTA is 3 seconds longer than the best run (it took 9 seconds for the cursor to go away).
English translation: I still don't understand what are the current rules for speedrun at the moment? Kega_Fusion emulator, and full-screen recording, while you need to play in a window? Is it possible not to turn on FPS? Do you need to record the full screen in order to see the time in the lower right corner? By the way, there is logic in this, but I think FPS should also be included.
Here are the rules for campaign:
For individual missions, it's the same except for timing, which depends on the cursor.
Я посмотрел 9 миссию ордосов, немного обкакался. Такое невозможно повторить. Даже не знаю как надо мотивировать чтобы я взялся за эту миссию.
