Well I can definitely create a category that would requires the runners to kill any enemies in sight. But if we want more fair contest to be sure as many monsters as possible are killed, it will require some documentations from the community to know in which enemies are mandatory to kill in each context.
Would you be in favor of a first mode where you kill all the enemies in sight, and which could then evolve with input from the community?
I would be in favor of something like that. If any specific rooms want to be disputed and documented for clarity sake I’m also open to that and willing to contribute when it comes up
Finally kicked off this category with a few run submissions to at least set some times. I noticed there hasn't been much movement even though there was a lot of discussion, so figured I'd restart the conversation. Only ambiguity I ran into:
- are challenge rooms required, since they are on the path and a guaranteed enemy spawn? (i ended up clearing them)
- if the path forks (choose one) between a boost or item upgrade room or a potion room, is it allowed to pick the potion room knowing the other will have enemies?
- do tanks in the incubator have to be broken open, since they can potentially have enemies that are not visible until opened. this seemed as though it should be the case cause they do have health bars and prevent the chests from opening, aka a room clear.
just happened to check this tab right as you posted that lol. I also submitted my older run a bit ago and am going to be practicing runs on the gift update within the next week or so. just waiting on whether or not it will be accepted. So far how ive done it and how i saw another speedrunner do it for this category was all challenge doors. I also did break all incubator tanks because of the potential enemy spawns. as for the fork with potion room, i personally take potion room when it shows up because both choices are technically the main path. but that one can be up for discussion. I thought of it as a funny potential time save
Didn't realize the category actually existed yet, I thought we were just in a limbo here.
This really is a tough category to nail down right now. Without the ability to see and input seeds, we can't verify if anyone has hit all the hidden paths that exist in a run for encounters, so you can't reasonably make it a rule to hit all those. So then how much of those paths do you cut out of the requirements, because the ones that are hidden behind entirely solid walls obviously don't count here, but then there's some Follow The Winds that are a touch off the main path but aren't hidden at all, it's just a matter of if they spawn in that run or not (there's a specific one or two in the 2nd biome I can think of immediately that are just on a very tiny couple-dash-length path off the chunk).
If we're going even slightly in the spirit of what ateatree, Oz, and I initially crafted, you would absolutely be taking all challenge doors, breaking all tanks, and purposefully picking the fight > healing ship as that is an encounter. Skipping the encounter choice at a fork feels like purposefully ignoring the point of taking all encounters, or at least that is what we had discussed when crafting what we have done for several marathons now, time-save be damned. But that's if anyone else wanted to do what we do (which at this point is effectively the only way I play the game at this point).
So if I'm really thinking on how we've discussed things as a trio to nail our rules down and what would need to be adjusted to fit the boards at current, I think it just gets adjusted to All Visible Encounters or something of that sort, even if the name doesn't exactly encompass the full rule-scope. Spitballed rules:
- You must kill every enemy on the main path of the run
- You must fight all optional Challenges (Eperin upgrade)
- You must fight optional elite enemy arenas (the ones that spawn directly next to the main path nowadays)
- You must fight all optional combat gates
- -At any forked path that offers a combat gate or a healing ship option, you must take the combat gate. If all options are combat gates, pick whichever gate you prefer
- You must break all tanks in the 4th biome as they potentially spawn enemies
- Optional path Follow the Winds are not required
- Custom memory decks are allowed
- All biome choices are allowed
- Probably have to have a rule that requires the Variant Bait upgrade to even the playing field, else the optimal choice is to specifically not buy it
yea im on board with doing the combat gate in a forked road with the potion shop. for custom memory decks im not fully sure. i kind of like the idea of running everything and having that part be pure rng. but if everyone discussed and are ok with custom memory decks being allowed then im also ok with it. Should people have everything unlocked to run?
I agree with everything on that list, looks good to me. On the topic of the memory deck, I think it should be fine with being allowed, since there is a total minimum across all the different categories. I noticed that I had too few selected overall when I selected the minimum from each group (weapons, trinkets, hexes, etc). So while there is flexibility, it did feel like there was still enough RNG that would be introduced into the pool. I'm not sure if they'll rebalance it in future updates, but I guess that's the point of having different update release submission options.
One more issue I encountered to this topic: What stops me from making a new save file with just the things unlocked I want? I could technically not unlock the challenges to save time etc. It is also possible to have less things unlocked than with the memory deck. Maybe we have to go to the memory deck and Eperin after the run and show the unlocks - or accept save files catered specific to speedrunning. (it is not unseen for games to have that)
yea thats why i was feeling there should be a minimum amount of things unlocked.
