I think you mixed up IGT and real time in your explaination :-). And yes for bot matches the time before horn seems t be 1:15. Thanks again!

hey there, I have a request for the IL leaderboard: can a mod please clarify what "real time" is supposed to be? every run on the leaderboard handles thiat differently. the worst I have seen is that ingame time = real time which is not true but still got approved as that. I would assume that the real time is the ingame time + 1m 15s for version 7.20, right? If that is the case I would like to ask a mod to change the few runs that are on the leaderboard accordingly and make it clear in the rules as there is nothing about the timing in the rules right now. Thanks a lot! ~Max

Savegames can be shared as far as I know. Maybe we can try that out some time. I don't think they can be shared over different versions though. If I feel like it I will prepare a savegame and some runs to show what I was aiming for.

What about the wargear of the AI? Did you ever notice the AI having wargear on their heroes?

Hey,

I was thinking about IL categories for this game for a long time but couldn't decide on the rules and stuff. Here is my idea so far:

Individual levels are the individual strongholds. The leaderboard would have a list of all 7 strongholds and all 7 factions so there be a total of 7 x 7 - 7 = 42 "levels" to choose from. The problem with the missions is that it is hard to define rules in a way that all have the same starting conditions. There are two ideas I have:

1. The player is not allowed to have any wargear, honour guard or special map bonus. This sounds good on paper but when you start think about it more you have 2 problems: the AI-honour guards vary dependign on how many areas the AI controls and the stronghold reinforcements vary on how many turns it takes you to get to the stronghold before the run. While the last part could be solved in that you can define a rule that the "defense number" must be 15 (whcih is the highest possible) the first one can only be solved by conquering all the areas from that AI oponent before starting the run.

2. The player is allowed to have as many wargear, honour guards and map bonuses as he wants. Aditionally I would say that the defense of the strongholds must be 15. The downside of this would be that you need a long preparation phase where you conquer the whole map and get 5000 kills for all the wargear before even attempting a run. The good thing is that one (me ;-) ) could prapare savegames for everyone to use where all the wargear is present and the whole map apart from the stronghold you want to run is conquered.

I personally like the second idea more as it would also lead to faster times and more interesting strats. With all the honour guards and the forward base you can tech really fast while also start to go at the same time.

If you have any ideas on how to improve option 1 or 2 or have an entirely new idea in mind, please let me know!

ps: One thing I haven't foudn a solution yet is how to control the AI's wargear progression. Does the AI even get wargear as the player does?

Hey, has anyone got the history edition of settlers 3? if so, are there any things useful for speedrunning. I know that it shows "Version 2.0" at the starting screen. so there could be some differences.

updated the first post with space marine strats and some stats to kills and time needed. as you see the values for "kills / minute" you could think you just clear all stornghold quickly with not much kills and get them all from the thur'abis in the end BUT you only get 83 kills/minute as long you kill other stuff than the untis from the beacon at the same time. after about 25-30 minutes the map is pretty much cleared. if the beacon units alone give more kills/minute than the other strongholds must still be tested. One thing is for sure: taking extra time in standard missions to kill more units is almost certainly not worth it.

ps: new record for sm with the strats described is currently uploading :-)

a discord would be nice. can you create a dow1 speedrun discord channel?

I have changed the rules and moved all affected runs to any%. If I have forgotten a run or put one there falsely please let me know.

The records for sm, ig and chaos are again up for grabs again. Happy hunting! :D

It isn't very difficult to get a page for a game. You can apply for any game to be added but you need to link at least one run to show that there is someone interested in the game.

As for me: I have my handsful moderating and running this game at the moment. Sometime in the future I can see me running the other dow expansions but don't expect that soon ^^.

One last question for the rules: what if an AI-player conquers a stronghold the player posesses? Must it be reconquered or is it enough to just have done all the special missions? I can see pros and cons for both options ...

I have routed space marines and aim to beat your time ; -)

I am really really happy to hear that you understand my reasoning! I feel kinda dumb as I myself brought this rule onto the site without really thinking of the consequenses it could have...

with this (hopefully last) rule change we end up with 3 very different and easy to understand categories. I will change the rules and move the runs within the next days.

Looking forward to the run. I plan to record a run next week :-)

hey there,

the last run of wilderjoe got me thinking a lot. it shows that the fastest way to do a all stronghold run is by using tactics from any%. I don't want to lessen his achievement but this strats turn "All stronholds" in "any% + a few extra missions" what is not what was the intend of this category.

the intention was to show the most exciting parts this game has to offer, which are the special stronghold missions. to beat them fast ment a fast time in the category. the problem is one single rule that I even added to the category later:

"If an AI-player takes over another stronghold it must still be conquered"

on paper this doesn't sound so bad but as wilderjoes latest run shows the fastest way to go is then: get pavonis and 1 or 2 more regions, let the AI kill each other, quickly conquer all the already defeated AI-stronghold and then the last stronghold.

I was thinking a lot the last few days on how to improve the rules so that all stronghold would become a more unique category again and the only way I can come up with is the following: delete the rule above and make it clear that the player has to do all the special stronghold missions himself. As you may expect this has some serious implications.

Pros:

• the category would be more interesting to play and watch
• the category would be more unique instead of being any%+X
• all runs done by other players than me or wilderjoe would still be valid and comparable
• less frustration / resets as the category isn't as reliant on the AI behaviour anymore

Cons:

• a lot of runs would be invalid or count as "any%" runs instead
• more frustration / resets when the AI conquers another stronghold
• run times are longer

as for my opinion: I would rather do all the runs that become invalid again to have better and diverse categories in the long run. any% is a frustrating category and when all stronghold becomes the same I don't see many people being interested in running this game.

please tell me what your opinions are as this change would affect a lot. I am very interested your opinion wilderjoe as this mostly affecty you and me.

yes, please do so. so I have the motivation to beat a time :D and thanks!

great! if you leave the necron mission last you can grind for how long you think it takes and save before compleating the mission. if you don't get to the wargear screen after the mission (which means you did it) you can reload and grind a bit more. while not perfect this can save runs. the downside is that one of the most aggressive AIs is in the game until the end. which also could be seen as a good thing as we need defenses for wargear as well.

yes, in tyrea in the main base units spawn if you don't kill the barracks and vehicle producing structures. it seems to be timing based, so I don't know if it is worth to just stand outside and wait. the thing with the orc banners could be promissing.

I plan this top post to be updated regularly with regions, strats and number of kills for that region to get a generel idea how and where to get to the 5k kill mark.

As this mission takes long anyway you can stick to the normal strats. Just lead a small force to the ork and chaos bases each. Don't kill the bases until you are almost finished with eldar to get some more kills from their periodic attacks.

With space marines: ~300 kills in ~20 minutes -> 14 kills/minute

Defend and tech as usual. Build some defenses and get a first group together. With that you go to the middle part of the map leaving the first base and two banners intact. From there you clear everything in the south part of the map. While doing so get a second group together which deals with the northern part. When the first group is done in the south attack Gorgutz. The second group and fresh recruits can take the first base and two banners you left at the start in the mean time.

With space marines: ~600 kills in ~16 minutes -> 38 kills/minute

Defend and tech as usual. As soon as you are finished defending the first attack go with everything you have either left or right. Get a second group after/while teching and lead them to the other side. Try to clear everything fast and then finally attack the main base from two sides. Get detector units for both groups as the Tau have quite a lot of stealth suits arround.

With space marines: ~650 kills in ~23 minutes -> 28 kills/minute

Defend and tech as usual. If you have enough honour guards devide you force in two groups after defending and attack the left and right paths simultaneously. Do not get in the blood pools when the timer gets low! If enough of your units die Chaos attacks you with a big demon which either kills your base or costs you a lot of time. Gather your troups arround the main base and attack from all angles at once.

With space marines: ~500 kills in ~16 minutes -> 32 kills/minute

This tactic in specifically for space marines: Defend and attack the bottom and left part of the map with everything but your hero, any asm and terminator guards you have. Tech to t2 while building a few extra asm. Get over the river and deep drop the terminators. The termis kill the base in front of the big cannon while your hero and the asm "sneak" by and jump into the enemy base and kill the head quarter.

With space marines: ~250 kills in ~10 minutes -> 25 kills/minute

Now this mission is the kicker for all races but necrons themselves. There is the "beacon of unlife" right in front of your starting area. Put units in front of it immeadiatly but DO NOT kill the beacon! It will revivie necron untis arround every view seconds which you can kill over and over again giving you an endles source of kills. Keep enough units arround that you don't get overwhelmed from the reviving necrons. All the while you can get a second and third group and kill as many necrons on the maps as you need/can.

With space marines: ~2000 kills in ~24 minutes -> 83 kills per minute

When defended by Orks you can get a lot of kills with little resistance. An idea I had for necrons: Get Hyperion Peaks right after pavonis and don't reinforce it and when attacked autodefend it. WIth any luck you loose that defense and can get another round of quick kills.

With space marines: ~300 kills in ~8 minutes -> 37 kills per minute

The strats expained above are feasable for all faction but necrons because they miss out the awesome beacon of unlife. More testing for them would help a lot.

lets put that in a seperate thread ;-)

allright. I changed the rules for 100% and also improved the descibtions for all categories to keep things clear. very well then, I am looking forward to the first "real" 100% run for this game.

ps: I was looking at your runs from DoW (base game) and I am planning to do some runs for that game as well … if I find the time that is