Hello everyone! Recently, we have noticed a few issues with the run rules that have proven to be challenging. As a result, we've decided to outline these issues along with potential solutions. If you have any suggestions on how to address these problems, please provide them here.

1- Run Starting Times: Currently, the starting time is triggered as soon as the player moves. However, this isn't ideal, as players can exploit this by waiting for a few seconds. This causes the run to technically not start, yet the in-game time continues to progress, bringing the player closer to the midnight mark. Possible Solution: Start the run when the character gets off the bed.

2- Run Ending Times: Given that most endings end at midnight in-game time and the run ends when the "THE END" text is displayed (without distortion), there isn't much room for improvement in this aspect. Possible Solution: N/A

3- Glitchless and %Any Categories: Although these categories have been here for some time, they haven't been utilized due to the absence of any game glitches that would make the run faster. Possible Solution: Merge the categories into a single category.

These are the issues we've identified so far. If you have any additional points or suggestions, we would greatly appreciate it if you could share them here or through our Discord DMs.

I look forward to these changes.

Hey everyone, Jamie and I talking last night was sort of what kickstarted all this so I'll drop some of my thoughts on the matter of timing down below.

A level playing field is the most important thing in speedrunning, and the previous timing rules didn't quite fit that mould since the in-game clock would progress while people who hestitated to start their run would unknowingly save time over others who started moving sooner. I believe we need timing to either start on Melody/Tabby touching the floor after getting off the bed, so RTA starts as soon as the clock starts ticking, or first input but with players being able to choose to delay their first input to save time at the cost of a more difficult run with tighter game cycles.

I am leaning towards first input timing with delay strats being a thing. If everyone can choose how much to delay, how much risk to take, everyone is on a level playing field compared to the previous system of unwitting timesave or timeloss. Choosing to delay that first input as much as you possibly can is also the only real chance for skill expression among top runners in a game where generally, a final boss will spawn at the same time for everybody and take the same number of hits from everybody. With a consistent start time in place (Tab/Mel first exiting the bed) there will be very little difference in times for most categories among runners as long as players start moving immediately. I think delay strats will make running the game more exciting in general.

But I will be happy no matter what we choose, as long as the game has fair timing. I actually stopped running this game a few months ago because I realised that one of the most competent runs I did wasn't actually a good run timing-wise because of the issues with the old systems; I started moving immediately meaning I had more in-game time to sit through. The first input / delay stategy option would admittedly make things complicated regarding longer categories added like All Endings if we make those official, but that's a bridge we can cross as a community when that happens.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I am leaning towards first input timing with delay strats being a thing. If everyone can choose how much to delay, how much risk to take, everyone is on a level playing field compared to the previous system of unwitting timesave or timeloss.

Unsure. If time starts the same for everyone the focus is more on what happens during the end where there is the concept of time attack gameplay. I do not know if skill expression means standing still for long time before picking up 5 items and doing the exciting segment the same as everyone else. （?）

Regarding skill expression, I mean that a more skilled player would be able to delay their start / first input longer because they would be more able to deal with tighter game cycles and whatnot. People who are still learning would likely start a bit sooner so they were less in danger of missing a window of opportunity, while very experienced players could start so late that they only have a fraction of a second to do some necessary part of the run before an in-game clock-based event triggers and makes something impossible. That kind of thing.

Either way, regardless of when we choose to start the timer, things will be fairer moving forward at least so I'm just happy we're making any change at all as a community. If you vote for time starting on bed exiting, that's fine with me. I've been added to the moderation team now and let me tell everyone that I want to have a real community consensus here. What the majority (or at least, the majority of recent players) wants is what we'll end up going with.

If we choose bed exit starts, I feel like top times for most categories could all be super close or even tied, say, if everyone gets the perfect timing for shooting Father memorised. That kind of thing isn't inherently good or bad, but that's something else to keep in mind. I do sort of like when I find a leaderboard where a ridiculous number of players are tied for first (usually because the game isn't timed to the millisecond) but I know some people prefer a more serious competition. I think having people tied to the millisecond is a very real possibilty in this case.

Edit: I think a "perfect" run is much more achievable in a game so centred on the in-game clock, while that sort of thing is a pipe dream in most speed games.

The only situation(from memory) where the run is exciting by means of waiting is having to avoid Lisa by starting after 1m:55s～ which allows you to complete the necessary objectives before she gets up if you play fast enough. Other than this, just seems redundant. I will submit a run in father category following this concept of waiting first.

The problem from my perspective with time-based games is there is always waiting involved, and having the player stand still with a timer on their phone until they can do the objectives the same way they have been doing them before, is just the thing of "now you have no time to act silly when waiting". I think it will be boring to watch top players not play the game for １～２ minutes at the start of every attempt, no?But for the main categories, there is a boundary(?) to the waiting that can be executed, so many theories exist.

Congratulations on your promotion.

I think we'll leave that submission waiting, like one of my own (which I used to highlight the issues with the old rules), until a decision is made on timing and more people weigh in. But, honestly, you're convincing me to just go for a standard start time with when the protag steps off the bed. But this is why discussing ideas as a community is so good, you can work through dozens of different solutions for any problems.

And thanks lol.

So we've changed the rules for standard categories to start on Tabby/Melody exiting the bed rather than first input and made it so time stops on the fade to black/white when an ending is triggered as discussed in the original post.

We discussed using the alternative timing style for a miscellaneous category where any ending could be chosen, in order to having something like an Any-est% category, but it's been decided to have such subcategories for every individual ending.

We've also added a longer category called Chapter 1 (Classic) for completing all five endings that were in the game at launch. We're waiting until some new content that was teased is added before we commit to a full All Endings category, so people's runs aren't quickly invalidated by the addition of new endings.