Bringing up we have lives is kinda a moot point we all do and that's understandable but there is how many ppl looking after the boards and playing the game? Surely I'm not the only one reading the forums and posting.

Anyways the premises of too easy to splice a run is kinda a silly thing to make a case for. You can always splice a run if you wanted to in the first place. Not sure anyone is going to assume the community is jist gonna splice a run because if that's the worry and mods/verifiers of the boards don't wanna take the time to go over runs then maybe they should not be doing it in the first place. Not including a component of the game because ppl are fearing spliced rus is kinda silly, but not gonna change motivation to run it alone.

Displaying the boards with unnessecary divisions just because people don't wanna see that Adam is the true fastest is fighting both functional and simplicity. When things are clear and simple it makes for a more cohesive and straightforward board when it comes to organization, promoting competition and interest.

Feel free to take this as me talking out my ass but iv been around enough communities even dealt with far worse issues to know what I'm talking about.

End if the day regardless I hope people continue to enjoy running the game however they want. But I'm not gonna be told that I'm gonna splice my run because Im running a game mode that plays differently then others.

Also Adam is far from the fastest character to play overall, they are good but it very much comes down to players skill and understanding how to read,judge and react to the game.

Here is a Mock up of the ideal way to lower category divisions and see overall fastest and still be able to set the filters to see fastest per character as if it was its own sub category.

Feel free to ignore story mode in the example but this cleans up the category divisions and presents the board much nicer for viewing and trims down the back end a bit. Since Boss rush is its own thing it should not be counted as a difficulty and instead because of how srdc works you'd just duplicate the category sets for the ones that apply to.

ILs would also be fairly straight forward following this way to utilize the boards ability to sort via filters for characters and still see the overall top times between all characters or filter for specific. IL's would only need to have Difficulty applied to them.

Ultimately the goal is to simplify the board for viewing and submitting without hurting anything or then fixing the mess of division nesting going on.

2P runs would also sort filters by characters as well which you already do so again its only adapting to cleaning up the overall look.

I really want to hear from others, I'm not trying to just beating at this topic for fun. I really do want to feel included in this game as a community member but since I currently run story mode that seems unlikely for now, but honestly I doubt I'll bother submitting my stuff hear based on the lack of constructive communication.

Your logic is flawed in so many ways. There is advantages to be made with this change and new strats to develop when it comes down to more accurate time comparisons between players on boards.

I'm done discussing this with you in particular on the forums @windshieldsnatch , as you still fail to provide any reasonable effort to continue fighting this discussion rather then be constructive to it.

If you would like to continue this discussion feel free to get a hold of me on Discord or via DMs.

Everyone else i would still like to hear some feedback and constructive discussion from, If people continue to start complaining about this then I will just lock this thread and changes will just happen as I've stated based on the knowledge we have and based on the facts presented.

If IGT tracked it accurately as I have said then there would be no issue but sadly it does not. ZED Time still has some merit in runs but attempting to always trigger it when unnecessary will start to be come more disadvantageous as I've said.

There are class perks that u can get that actually would make ZED Time more desirable in speedruns for RTA purposes.

Accepting this change is your Biggest barrier outside learning and adapting to new strategies with this.

You fail to see the points being made. TBH this is not even remotely close to a discussion where your self or others have not contributed information to help with supporting your side of the discussion other then complain that you want to keep an inaccurate form of timing runs that is clearly being abused in an unsportsmanlike like fashion.

I would love for the games IGT and Zed Time to be a part of playing the game but since they clearly do not work correctly together amongst other things is unfortunately not something we can control which is why the switch to RTA makes sense because within that realm we have control when it comes to accuracy.

I would rather not be spending this time debating this and just continuing on with IGT as well but sadly as someone who takes this stuff rather seriously its not something I'm willing to let slide knowing full well its doing more harm as it goes on then good when it comes to tracking competition correctly.

The Game can still be competitive if not more, It does involve adapting a bit more to the game albeit avoid a game mechanic that is manipulable to a degree.

these may not be as accurate as many report but it is fairly verifiable if you have played the game enough.

Base chances to get ZED Time: Player kills ZED (within 300 units of range) - 5%. Player kills ZED (range > 300 units) - 2.5%. ZED kills player or other ZED - 5%. ZED dies under other circumstances - 5%. Commando's extension - 100%. Boss dies - 100% (duration - 6 seconds). ZED Time base duration is 3 seconds and slows the game world and IGT to approx 20% of games full speed. Minimum interval between two ZED Times is 10 seconds. Cooldown starts right at the beginning of each ZED Time.

You forget the fact we have mentioned that Zed time ultimately makes the IGT broken and not count correctly. Subtracting the initial time on deploy and for the end is is enough, that I don't dismiss but when comparing an accurate time measurement to an obviously inaccurate one there is clearly a massive time difference not accounted for when your measuring competition where inputs and time are what decide what is the fastest.

You say that but tbh no matter how you slice it the as someone who takes tracking this accurately on a competitive board seriously and have been for years now, It may suck but its gonna be how we need to do it unless they fix the in game timer to properly count.

I'm not too happy about it myself either because its more work and effort for myself to both make the changes and updates reflect into the boards and also follow suit.

Feel free to run the game on ur own using IGT but going forward RTA is how we will track runs here because its far more accurate and fair given how the game currently works.

Then learn to play the game and avoid it because there is specific parameters that make it happen, It's not as RNG as you think.

Tracking IGT even if we show the timer upon deploy and after is still not giving an accurate form of measuring time elapsed in the game as a speedrun.

How does RTA ruin the game when like the vast majority of any games in speedrunning use RTA when IGT is either not present or grossly inaccurate.

I have dealt with similair issues with IGT being later determined to be problematic and ultimate end up switching to RTA to promote accurate measuring for competitive hobby.

No, we do not have to state it. It's not allowed because its a fairly random occurrence and unfortunately not a proper way to measure player skill in a competitive setting without promoting reset cancer runs over actual skillful play of the game and working within or around its mechanics.

We have already discussed this in the past. Things like that and the reloading/over-maxing clip glitch were also handled the same way. Tho the Reloading glitch that I'm speaking of was later patched due to how abusive it was. There were other things as well that were then later patched after fair bit of time bu ultimately if we see it or its brought to our attention we will deal with it.

I would like to have RTA become the new timing standard within the next few weeks as we approach into the new Month, any runs currently submitted or on the boards already will be re-timed due to the games timer being so grossly inaccurate when it comes to measuring consistently from start to finish.

What this means is that many runs will likely have a faster overall time, where as others that played to the gross inconsistency of IGT will end up with overall slower times. Basically any runs that heavily abused Zed Time will see the biggest difference. New strategies will have to be adopted to improve times in runs and will ultimately require allot more effort to do well within an RTA setting where abusing mechanics can be disadvantageous.

Finding convoluted ways to still try and make IGT work with broken mechanics or otherwise clearly counter intuitive to evening playing fields is a bad take on this. Zed time issue is all together a fairly large reason why RTA should be how to time things, essentially fighting to keep IGT is favoring and allowing for a huge uneven advantage to an already problematic feature of the game. The fact that IGT is not actually tracking consistent measures of time due to a large amount of variables within the game is clearly why its important to fix this.

Much like any speedrun plagued by issues with IGT and other features potentially needing to be avoided to actually save time, its now apparent this also needs to be done with KF2.

IGT incentivizes: INACURATELY measuring time per inputs VS more ACCURATE time measure measurements per inputs.

I'm not gonna ask anyone to like the change but it's something that unfortunately is an issue and should be mitigated to promote equal and as fair competitive field as possible. If the In Game Timer did not have all these apparent issues and tracked some measure of time correctly per input such as counting via frame then that would likely still be acceptable but sadly this is not the case at all. IGT is clearly being manipulated before the match is even started, during and even after it should be over or have stopped tracked.

Don't hold ur breath I've tried to talk with them about actually doing stuff with the boards and tbh its a dead game as far as speedrun potential goes. I've gone as far as setting up a squad and doing a run to a win so yeah GL but don't count on it. They are also pretty sporadic for activity when it comes to responses etc.

The real thing is seeing how IGT is constant tick in online lobbies unless ur ready almost instantly you are going to lose time already before the match starts.

The only real way to keep an even field due to how inaccurate IGT is actually, is for us to move to RTA timing:

• Time starts when deploy countdown hits 0 after readying up.
• Time stops when boss is killed and "VICTORY" appears on screen Above is the purposed change for timing future runs, This has been on my to do list for awhile now, seeing as the devs have yet to respond to me or fix the issue with IGT not counting correctly before the deploy. This is not only reasons for this change mainly that you always get time added after the boss is dead or before the score screen appears because there is a mandatory wait time that every gets, changing the timing to the above mentioned general rule of thumb will work out better for everyone.

RTA timing runs is not difficult to do for this game since generally runs will be short. I have no problem running timers along side runs to verify things because I already do it. You won't be required to have an onscreen timer, but you will need to accurately time your run before submitting it.

I will leave this open to discuss more before making any changes or adjustments. I will go back and retime all current personal best runs for all runners as needed and note the adjustments.

https://www.speedrun.com/sotn/full_game#Alucard -> Glitchless Any%

There is a glitchless category tho? not sure what sort of difference there would be for Requiem/DXC running glitchless.

The IGT between levels as normal does not reset at all if you lose a life. If you gameover the runs dead anyways so I personally don't understand why this matters. There is a good number of things that are different between story vs arcade in terms of how lives work and arcade is for 1cc clears generally like the old games.

Story Mode should be there but thats the communities call. But as it stands right now they need to cut down on the category divisions. There is just too many where as they could be condensed.

Not gonna lie, the boards look bloody confusing and aweful. Can we not just simplify things and sort by character? Segregating the boards like this is rather silly and once you go past one sub category things are just not pretty or easy to manage,move or update.

My suggestions are: Each Mode should be a Category followed by Difficulty as those are the biggest factors in the runs. Coop versions should be their own Main categories like above. Characters should be used as sort filter when submitting so if people want to see the fastest its shown like a true Any% run would be. If they wanna see the Fastest SoR4 specific character or Retro they can compare them by using the filters.

I see no reason to have the boards look like this at all or to hide the main play modes of the game in MISC.

I would also suggest testing the IGT timing of the game because allot of them are broken and not found to be working correctly till much later just because people found it to be the easiest thing to go with.

While ARPGME may be over, we would like to hear about the marathon from everyone who either watched, preformed a run/showcase or even helped out.

This year we tried some new things compared to previous years, so we would like to know what did or did not work so well, how gethings felt in general when it came to presentation and maybe things to look at in the future.

This year we ran the entire marathon setup remotely and used some automation thanks to tools like Nodecg and Speedcontrol. While our use and implementation was a bit barebones it did the many things we found in previous years to be time consuming or easy to forget.

Having a team is very important when running events regardless of size or length, everyone being able to help with certain things or with just running the event when others after not available is key to making things happen. So thank you to those that were part of that with me.

So with that said please express your feedback positives and negatives, so we can look at what to focus on for the future.

If this is the kinda attitude you have in general then you probably should not be doing this kinda thing to begin with. There is plenty of games and communities that do not track their games on the site and even then not even all the categories that people may run because of much of what Oreo has kindly took the time to explain.

The other thing to keep in mind your account is still fairly new as well and that may or may not have some factors on the site staffs verdicts but if a game is that short for a run and there's not a whole lot going on I doubt there will be much there for many people to enjoy about speedrunning the game outside maybe yourself and a few others, which then goes back into the whole note-able reasoning which either way I see it makes logical sense.

No ones gonna keep you from running the game even if its not on the site, technically I speedrun a few other games myself that are not listed here and probably never will be at least any time soon. And either way when talking to site staff directly in a level and calm fashion its very easy to understand and see the reasoning for it.

Runners that have submitted to the marathon will be contacted within the next while as we sort through the submissions and have a draft of games and somewhat of a schedule started.

Please check your PMs on the site here as we will use it for primary contact. Alternatively if you have submitted please join the discord server as this is where we will be organizing everything going forward and remaining in contact with you.

Thank you again to everyone that submitted to ARPGME 2020. Looking forward to a stellar weekend.