think you need to beat the first 30 levels to unlock challenges

Oh wait that 9 hour break system, which Breath of the Wild introduced for 100%, is not even implemented in the 602. This suggestion is shorter than the 602

• Complete each game in the way that Console Series Any% or Handheld Series Any% completes it
• You are allowed one 9 hour sleep break at some point during the run

If this category has any chance of being added, it's after a run of this has been done. Also, someone has to make a list of every seed and beanstalk in the game

It means that category isn't runnable

It just looks so cluttered to me, with the packs of 10 being in misc and not in ILs

Indeed, @Habble did not say that an N64 costs money. That doesn't make it wrong to bring it up, though

And he pointed out that, while nobody is going to cheat a WR on N64 anytime soon, there's a possibility that a future WR in the less optimized VC and Emulator categories might be by someone who might be in danger of making the mistake of cheating

Whereas I, on the last page, responded to a post that said you can't trust PJ64 because it could be Mupen; by pointing out that afaik there are ways to tell apart live RTA on Mupen, a TAS playback on Mupen, and a live performance with Memory watch at least if a complete screen recording is provided, which makes me confused on why Mupen is actually banned

Bingo is a nice race category, but too random and third-party to be commonly on the leaderboards. See Bingo in Super Mario 64, Breath of the Wild, or pretty much any game that has a Bingo.

Of course, any community can go against that tendency, but I don't think established Odyssey speedrunners are going to do that. Another aspect to note is that in a Bingo, you typically don't play for a personal best, but rather for a good average time or a win in a race

As a Mupen user, I wonder how you wouldn't be able to tell from my live input window, as well as the format of the numbers in the bottom line of the program, whether a run would be live or a playback of a .m64. I guess you can't tell whether I used memory watch, but I don't think there's much of a point in using that at a competitive level anyway - aside from… knowing what RNG you got in HMC100?

My bad. Of course you all made lots of valid arguments on page 1 - think I framed this page 2 too much in the light of the later pages in the 10x singlestar thread, and focused too hard on only the last few nessages.

• The SM64 vanilla speedrun community is, and has been for a long time, regarding N64 above the other ways of playing SM64, which is why it is currently the only version represented on the IL board
• Adding separate subcategories for VC and Emulator would take up space in each IL category
• There are speedrunners who want to be part of the speedrun-submitting community while running the normal categories, who have a way of playing SM64 that is not on N64

I see neither side forming arguments, could you concentrate a bit more on that?

yeah, it's in a sticky thread

VC is a legitimate release of the game, no records on it are "fake". They can't be compared to N64 records, though

It's faster, and subcategories probably seem like overkill to the mods

I can't but agree that lost has a slightly annoying tone to himself, let's hope it'll go away with age. On the other hand, I don't see how that should invalidate anything of what I, @SilverCross, @TheCrit, @andrewmcfly, @Habble, @Thomkar, and @HUMANRAC3 said on the first page of this thread (if any of you changed your position, feel free to make another statement)

Someone actually compared these unique consistency categories to 12 star, 27 star, and 107 star. Those "X stars" categories are not only completely arbitrary from the numbers (no reason to run 107 star over 106 star), but also their gameplay isn't unique in the slightest as they would just be more remixes of 120 star, 90 star, and 0 star segments. "10x singlestar", for the right singlestars (Cannonless, Owlless, WDW elevator) is unique not only in its unique idea of including a segment 10 times, but also in what segment is used that might not be viable in singlestar nor in one's full-game attempts.

And with all that, there was still never the suggestion to add a subcategory for a 10x singlestar people weren't already running, so there wouldn't be any empty subcategories.

As to why we took so long to reflect on dumpdome's points properly, it's probably because he took very long to clearly state anything more than "it's not necessary to make a full category for each star"

10x singlestar is a unique run that wouldn't make sense on the normal boards. It is about showing off (not just practicing!) one's consistency on a strat that doesn't have a place on the singlestar leaderboards because there is a very inconsistent strat faster than it.

I listened to why 10x cannonless was added in the first place (it was fun to see who could first complete an inconsistent strat 10x), but it should also be noted that 10x cannonless remained one category on the board to this day, mostly because some runners like the unique nature of this category

While making a category on what's being unique, fun, short, and happens to be good for practice may be how you end up with 100 categories (doubt it'd be that many), making a SUBCATEGORY for those reasons is how you end up with 1 category, and that's a very viable number of categories imo.

"Unnecessary" means the board could go with or without it

Anything more of what you said is your opinion, and it sounds like a pretty personal opinion to me

Now that you're talking about a speedrun existing at all rather than taking up a full category, being "unnecessary" does become a pretty weak argument for a community hobby