Commentaires
United StatesGrimelios6 years ago

Psykogwak, I wrote the autosplitter. I'd recommend you come to Discord and I can help you further :)

United StatesGrimelios7 years ago

It's multiplayer in the sense that we compete with each other. You're right that if there was no speedrunning community, it wouldn't matter at all how you used the game, including directly modifying games files or using timed macros. But speedrunning adds a multiplayer component.

United StatesGrimelios7 years ago

I'm also curious your response to the point I made about R6: Siege. In that game, scroll wheel was banned even though it's technically the same 1-to-1 input. What makes Ori different?

United StatesGrimelios7 years ago

Dude Het, that doesn't make sense. "There is no slippery slope." But Sigma was the one who mentioned it first. I didn't make that up. "Difficulty is completely subjective." I mean, I guess, but who would think that rolling a series of 4 keys in four frames is easier than a quick scroll wheel input? You're taking a general statement (difficulty is subjective) and applying it to a situation where one method is pretty clearly easier.

You talk about being insulting? "Hmm none of that matters because I think your real reason for arguing is because you don't want to get good." That is not what I fucking said, nor are your other quotes. You are the literal best Ori player on the planet, and my time is worse than most KBM runners. That shit is a straw man, not what I said.

One more thing. My "baseless speculation" isn't baseless at all. Based on the Discord discussion, controller players are pretty much all in favor of banning and KBM players are basically all in favor of keeping it (with rare exceptions). So it's not baseless at all.

United StatesGrimelios7 years ago

I think I agree with Vulajin's point that the problems with scroll wheel aren't worth messing up the community this much, especially because a majority of runners use KBM anyway. Just so that it's said though (Vula alluded to this above), but Rainbow 6: Siege had similar problems, where players could bind left click to scroll wheel using external software to fire a pistol at unlimited speed (I guess it would be once per frame?), something the game did not allow by default. The backlash from competitive players was such that Ubisoft had to step in and ban the practice because it would have killed the competitive scene. So there is precedent for this kind of thing.

United StatesGrimelios7 years ago

I wanted to point out that the "slippery slope" a few people have mentioned is a logical fallacy. When's the last time you heard about someone physically attaching a wheel to their keyboard to simulate scroll wheel? Those kinds of what-if scenarios aren't going to happen. We all know each other in this community. Who's going to pull something like that? And if they do, we'll discuss it then.

Next, the 1-to-1 argument. Yes, scroll wheel is technically still 1-to-1, making it not true turbo, but as we've mentioned many times now, it effectively lets you perform in ways that are virtually impossible for humans. Yes, you could theoretically bind a row of keys to left click and roll your fingers, but that's way harder than using scroll wheel. Plus, you only have so many fingers. I feel this point of "turbo" vs. "technically not turbo" isn't useful, because it's effectively pretty close to turbo.

One more thing which I said in Discord, but there were thousands of messages yesterday, so I'll repeat. On the topic of "if we ban scroll wheel with the justification that it's not allowed by the game, we should also ban all controller remapping", you must realize that those are not the same. On the one hand, we're talking about disallowing scroll wheel for TAS-level inputs (something that is disallowed by some FPSs, btw), and on the other hand, effectively removing all controller players from serious competitive Ori speedrunning. So yes, the fundamental logic (the game doesn't allow it) is the same, but it's really not fair to lump those together.

I'm not surprised that KBM runners want to keep scroll wheel, but I'm frustrated at what I feel are shaky justifications, when the reality (to me) seems to be that KBM runners enjoy the advantages of scroll wheel and don't want to lose the extra time or have to re-learn. Both of those things are understandable.

United StatesGrimelios7 years ago

Are we sure that load times are significantly different after starting a new game? Starting the timer on new game would be consistent with most other runs I've done, but if there are differences that we can't get around, I'd agree. With Ori, I know the game took a while to load on your first new game of the day, but after loading once, it was always fast, so that could be something to investigate as well. If there really are significant differences, then I'd prefer the third option since that's pretty easy to time accurately enough.

I've written an autosplitter with help before. I'm sure I could figure out how for this game as well. That said, I don't think I want to take the time and effort at the moment with everything else I have going on.

À propos de Grimelios
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Ori and the Blind Forest
Ori and the Blind Forest
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