Hello, As the game is still quite new I wanted to open a discussion for rules for anyone interested in running the game.

Do we want main category runs to be default difficulty or allow any difficulty settings that may make the run as fast as possible I need to look into them a bit more but it seems some are quality of life changes and some are just god mode so it may detract from the games spirit? We can also have sub categories for difficulty if we think they will be equally popular.

Feel free to mention any other ideas as well.

Edit: Rules preview

Update as dialogue skip has been found

RTA ends on credits

IGT ends the moment you have a save titled "Main Story Complete" After the credits are skipped you must save the game to have the name change from "End of the road" to "Main Story Complete"

All categories

• All runs start from an empty save file

• Time starts when you select "START" on the empty save

Any%

• Gameplay settings: Difficulty/Realism/Modifiers must remain default, When starting a new save
• make sure the Settings>Gameplay tab is fully visible at the beginning or the end a a run
• Timing ends when the credits play

Any% Unrestricted

• Complete the main story
• Timing ends when you complete the mission "End of the Road" (on Fade to white)
• Unrestricted Gameplay settings including Difficulty/Realism/Modifiers

I feel like any% unrestricted is such a staple of speedrunning that it can't be just not included. I guess we gonna have to wait and see once people get into the game more, but not including this would be a mistake IMO

I figure, as svxe said, any% is a must-have.

If the objective is to complete the game as fast as possible, any game settings should be allowed. True any% should allow any strat that doesn't involve modding the game, and even that has some notable exceptions in other games like UPS 'speedometers' and certain texture/sound replacements.

I used to run Half-Life 2 and there were a lot of things that just needed to be decided on a case-by-case basis by the community. Like Save Deletion or running an Unpack version rather than the Steam version because the Unpack had much, much faster loading times - or even the fact you needed to use the console to set your binds.

Even though I probably wouldn't run it with the 'easiest' difficulty settings as, like ckixy said, there is the option to simply turn off damage entirely. Whether that is actually beneficial or not still remains to be seen, since there could be a damage boost or similar tech that is yet to be discovered.

I definitely think "any%, default D/R/M" standing for Difficulty / Realism / Modifiers should be a category and it is the category I'd be most likely to run. Even though I really like the "Equipped Part Swapping" option under Realism for the QOL factor, I'd give that up in favor of keeping to the category.

I would just say default Gameplay settings but that would imply you can't change the Language or FOV either, since those settings are on that menu, as well.

I just had a look through the settings and it doesn't appear anything under the Accessibility menu would change things much.

Alright currently I have it set to, Any% (Default Difficulty/Realism/Modifiers), Any% Unrestricted and 100% is on hold for more discussion

I did notice that only player/car damage and player death settings disable achievements so if any% was default for only those 3 settings it would still be somewhat in the spirit of the game but it would remove fuel,quirks and most car damage.

Without making too many categories we could move unrestricted into more of a any% Easy, the rules would just be "Car/Player Damage, Player Death must be on"

at least starting with all default and all unrestricted lets us experience both sides, maybe one is too hard and maybe one is too easy and we go from there.

100% isn't really a category I plan to run so I'll have to hear from runners that want to run it, I can see it being as simple as obtain all fabrication station unlocks or we can go as granular as 100% the logbook.

100% would be a marathon run until some major strats become available. There's so much RNG involved with what shows up, not just in terms of things you can scan, either. 100% Logbook would include all the tapes, all the lore bits you find in the world, and all the scans. Yeesh. My hat is off to anyone who wants to run it, but I'm going to pass on that.

I had my first real attempt at an Any% Unrestricted run and managed 5h 30m 20s by in-game timer. Once the leaderboards go live I'll start streaming runs. I'm pretty sure I can do sub-5h with my current strats, I had an entire wasted trip because the destination didn't link up how I thought it would and there was some time waste on unnecessary looting.

Really interested to see how quickly and how far we can drive down these run times.

i think the weather sub menu of accessibility and high vis loot should also be in the rules personally i think high vis is fine since it reduces rng time wasting however i find my self on the fence about weather, especially brighter nights and windshield acid splash

Definitely some things to be considered. Disabling windshield acid splash almost totally negates the danger of Burp Bunnies in particular. I'm not sure if there are other sources of it because in my casual playthrough, those are the only things that caused it, but I'm pretty sure I never collided with a Rotten Egg or took a direct hit from other sources of acid.

Brighter Nights I'm a bit on the fence about. It does reduce the need for a light source during normal nights but it does nothing for zones with the Eerie Darkness condition. Going back to my casual playthrough which was done on all defaults, the most annoying thing about night time was trying to find where all the scraps dropped, which High Vis Loot would negate, anyway.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned yet - should we use the in-game timer or an external timer?

Using in-game timer has the benefit of removing loading times from consideration, so saving time by having a better PC won't be a thing.

I'm not sure if the option to pause the game while in menus also stops the in-game timer, though. If it does, then using that option makes fast menuing worthless.

external also means that the runner can see their time mid run sicne unless i missed it the timer only apears on the save screen

I would have to test IGT as I have had it bug and show other saves time on it? and I think IGT is only observable on a save file right?

I also need to test the end of the game and see if player control is needed to get to the end of the credits or if the end talking is all just on rails, I'm thinking as the mission "End of the road" completes when you teleport, Time should maybe end there.

For Talons question, Normally speedrunners would still have an RTA timer for splits and all even if you are going by IGT.

For now I think runners should record RTA and once they teleport to the shop for the last time, go into load game and show IGT as it would have auto saved the moment you return.

I've encountered the same bug, I think it happens if you're playing on one save, then switch to another save, the IGT counts all the time you have spent this session plus the IGT of the first save.

For example, I encountered this when I had just finished my first playthrough at about 40 hours playtime, and then immediately started a new save to test an idea I had. When I saved that new slot, it showed the time from my first playthrough plus the hour or so I had actually spent playing the new save slot.

So far the only work-around I know of, that fortunately does work every time, is to quit to desktop before starting a new save.

And yeah @ Talon, it isn't uncommon for a game to be officially judged by IGT but runners still use an external timer with splits to help themselves identify what sections they can save time on. The splits will be consistent with their own system so it's still useful, it just isn't the method of judgement for leaderboards.

In this video I show how the save file doesn't say "Main Story Complete" until you make a save after the credits.

If we do end up going by IGT I'm thinking that would be the best indicator as when you warp in you are technically still on "End of the road" and that shares a save name with the zone prior

As of now, The leaderboards will open with Real Time attack but please document In Game Time, as it would be easy to cut the leaderboards over to IGT if we find it consistent.

Few issues with IGT were brought up with my first run today, The first issue is reliably restarting a run.

I had to first Delete a save slot I would like to use, I then had to completely close the game out and relaunch it, After that you have to drive the entire intro until you can be certain the save file time isn't wrong as the first time you can observe the timestamp is after you breach the wall.

The second issue is the fact the game doesn't punish or document reloading a save, so if someone has a bad segment in a junction they can just reload that junction as many times as they like and IGT remains the same until they load into the next zone. This my also occur by accident if you spawn in and instantly get stuck/take a lot of damage, it may be better for RTA to reload the junction but IGT will be save scummed in a way

I don't understand the logic of calling it Any% Unrestricted. Any% by definition typically means unrestricted. If you want a more restricted run from there, you do like No Major Glitches or something.

From what I've seen in other communities, typically you have "Any%", which by definition is unrestricted, then if a subset category banning specific massive exploits is popular you can have "Any% No X". For example "Any% No SSU" in GTA Vice City or "Any% No Voidclip" in Half-Life 2.

Or, taking from the Amnesia games, they have a more broad "Any%" and "Any% Restricted" which would be a name flip from the current setup here.

My hope was to get a few submissions and see if the separation still stands or if we should maybe combine into any setting that doesn't disable achievements? my thought is some games will over provide control that detracts from the spirit of the game, a few examples I can think of is no one really speedruns creative minecraft, I noticed on Baldur's gate they don't allow custom difficulty.

But if its just the name change and a majority want it, I can flip them before any submissions come in.

Edit: Reading back through I am seeing 3 in favor already, I misread what Vis said. I'll update the names/rules real quick