Massachusetts, USA
Now that we are adding individual levels and changing the timing, I figured it would be a good time to share that last time I was doing ILs I made a speedrun timer mod.
You can see a version of it here: On the score screen, instead of just "4" for the time, it lists 4:26 meaning 4 seconds and 26 frames. The game's internal timer runs at 33 fps but the game actually runs at 30 fps. This version only shows 1 time because the other bot was TASed, usually it lists each time. This has been useful for me to see how far away from saving the next second I am.
With some work I can probably make this into a tool that displays exact time for a whole level, removing the need to do many repeated frame-by-frame timings by hand. I wanted to post about this before submitting any ILs to make sure we are on the same page about whether this tool is allowed. Personally I think it's fine as it does not give you any additional information until after the level is over, it does not modify any part of the game except the score screen, and I will make the tool publicly available when it's done so no one has any unfair advantage.
Awesome stuff! I will upload the individual level runs I have soon. As for the timing, I think we should stop time when the last bot enters the time pod after you have the skip circuit. This way removes the RNG of the exit animation and is the moment the game uses to calculate "Player time" and "Level time". The game clock begins the first frame that the green triangle appears above you.
Nice run :) The game isn't totally dead, but Dshort and I are the only ones that have put effort into optimizing any%. I have done some ILs since setting the any% record, and I plan to do more runs in the future when I have more time to grind, especially if other runners are getting involved.
"It's not hard to buy a Wii, and it's not difficult to homebrew it." I have a homebrewed Wii. I'm just not willing to put up with how much worse it is to run on. I, like many other players, would prefer to run on emulator. Wiis could be free and it would change nothing about my arguments in favor of allowing emulators.
"You realize running on anything BUT Vanilla or CTGP is banned, right? It's easy to tell. Basically RiiOcarina and Riivolution etc. are banned. So you can't use codes." How is this any different from saying "You know cheating on dolphin is banned right? So you can't"? How can you tell just from gameplay footage that someone is running Riivolution? If banning codes is sufficient and it's "easy to tell", why would the same idea not apply to dolphin?
"I'd say it's way easier, specifically for full-cup runs." If you disagree with this quote, then take it up with charlocharlie I guess.
"Wii is the original console. Dolphin is an emulation." It seems like you misunderstood my point here. I was pointing out the error in the logic of saying that some people don't have the right equipment, so we should ban the use of that equipment entirely. That doesn't make any sense because not everyone has a Wii either.
"Again, you cannot replay a full-cup run on console." Sure, it's easier to play a TAS on console using an RKG. You don't even need a replay device for that if you can just port over the ghost file. Is there really no way to play back arbitrary inputs? Let's assume there isn't and that you've met the first criteria, that it's a cheating method exclusive to emulator. Is it impossible to mitigate with additional proof standards such as a handcam? I think it would be fairly obvious if someone were replaying an hour long TAS that their button presses on camera did not perfectly line up.
"If we were having this discussion on the Super Mario Odyssey boards, you would have a much different response." I'm not sure why you would bring up a different game on a different console with a different emulator, but by all means, tell me what my response would be.
As one of the mods said, "Emulator may be allowed after the switch to IGT, but that is to be discussed after the switch." Seeing as it's been 2 years now since the switch, let's discuss! I'll ignore the nitpicking over ebay prices as that's not really relevant.
Cheating: we all know cheating is possible on console and emulator. So what is the argument then, that cheating is easier on emulator? To quote a mod again, "On the topic of Gecko codes, cheating is no easier on Dolphin than console. Cheats like a speed modifier can easily be done on console with homebrew, as well as on Dolphin without changing the code." But it's not just gecko codes people are concerned about, it's Dolphin's TAS features too. However, this argument does not make sense either as TASes can be played back on console. For example, they did this at SGDQ. Until someone can give me a cheating method that is both exclusive to emulator and impossible to mitigate with additional proof standards, I don't think there is a logical reason for banning emulator on these grounds.
And then people will say "SOME people won't be able to meet the new proof standards or don't have a fast enough computer, so let's ban EVERYONE from participating that way". I think it's pretty obvious why this is a flawed argument. Some people don't have Wiis either, does that mean we should ban Wiis? Having more options available to runners is a good thing in general, the fact that we wouldn't be helping everyone on emulator is not a valid reason to help nobody instead.
Currently, no one is producing Wiis but people are producing computers. This means that at some point we will be forced to choose between letting the community die and allowing emulators. So while they might be banned for the foreseeable future, we will have to unban them eventually. When they are, people like me that have been running the game for years but unable to submit runs will finally have a chance to compete! :)
There is an emulator but most of the TASes created so far weren't created on it because it's not 100% accurate yet. We have TAS tools that playback inputs on console.
As you can see in the links other people posted here, there are now multiple kingdoms done + some other segments for TAS :)
At this point it might only take a year or two for us to have most/all of the game done
Another one down! Level 34 with just 1 bot and no pause. Minimum possible flux is at 72.
Saved 1! 21 with 3 bots. I'm not sure if level 22 can be done with 3, the strategy for doing it with 4 is already kinda complicated.
Here it is, Chronotron beaten with 74 time machine uses!
Bots by Level Easy: 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 Basic: 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 2 Medium: 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 2, 4 Hard: 4, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1 Impossible: 2, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 3
If we could find a way to save a bot on levels 21 and 22, it would prove all levels are possible with just 3 bots!
I have been working on the same idea myself for awhile :D With the way you're counting it, I believe the total I have is 74? If going to grab a pause from level 13 counts as a time machine use, then it's not really worth it. Level 19 can be completed with 2 bots without pause abuse, and level 31 can be completed with 1 bot without pause abuse. https://twitter.com/QFlame3/status/1395122893156192264
I will work on putting together a video with the minimum amount of bots :)
Now that this game has a few runners and some speed strats, we should have a place to discuss and further the game :) So I made a discord for it: https://discord.gg/8MH2jDjcFv
Your best bet is to lurk in the tas discord and don't bother people about it That's what I've been doing for years now and you can see the star improvements as they come out Or you can just watch the current individual star times here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12Sl41gqLUGzBU0p1nx7uNKOAP835NIoFXqda1j6oqag
Hi, I'm going to speedrun this game and was wondering if there are any resources or a discord or anything for it. Seems like only a few people have done runs, so I'm going to bring the optimization to a new level. :)
The DOS version is the same story but effectively a different game. There would unfortunately be no way to compare times across DOS and SNES, so runs should be done on a SNES or an accurate emulator.
That is a dropped frame. We're missing 50.780, and it instead goes from 50.747 to 50.813. Because of this, it appears like the hammer moves twice as quickly. Having a an occasional dropped frame is completely normal and is not indicative of "montage"
Hello, I'm one of the only people currently speedrunning this game. I'd be happy to help you improve. I also noticed there is no discord so I made one. https://discord.gg/QqXtWfQ anyone is welcome to join :)
