The glitch you're speaking of is indeed the one DK ran into and it has been looked into. It is a hardware glitch and not part of the code of the game. If it was a part of the code I wouldn't see why it couldn't be used as any% as it would pertain to reaching the end of the game using the game's code parameters. For instance, getting the 1 round kill on the base 2 boss. I believe it was Mr. K who looked into it. I could ask him about it.

From playing it on the switch it seems to function the same as far as doing things like ledge skips in waterfall and pausing to reset the global timer is concerned. Not sure about the frame rates though. From the research I've done online it's supposed to run at the original 59.94 fps.

Just to make it clear I did state that I was looking from the outside in, hence in Dai's point of view, and I said I meant no disrespect. Playing Devil's Advocate means we need to look through the eyes of the one being questioned and think how they feel about it as well as pointing to the consequences of how people would feel in the after effects, also taking into consideration they may not know the unwritten rules. The initial start to the thread didn't specify that it was a discussion about strats/techniques, as it was later said to be, and then it escalates to maybe the run should be questioned and that it should possibly be rejected even though he has submitted several runs previously that were not questioned nor rejected, and then a response showing his vod all makes it look like there's people building evidence trying to discredit and prove the questioning of his run. It was getting pretty one sided from his point of view. If his first run had been given this scrutiny I'm sure Dai would of accepted that and start his runs the way everyone is saying it should be done. However, again, unwritten rules are not in the rules that are with the written ones. Dai doesn't speedrun as often as some of us do so you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Again, all the points I'm making are from how Dai would look at everything that happened in the thread before marth added him to it to weigh in how he feels about it. I wasn't accusing, I was stating a scenario. I even mentioned not to jump to conclusions which includes both sides of the coin.

With that said now I would like to give some points that concern me. buffalax points to a google doc with these said rules that's dated April 8, 2018. Why isn't this posted in the rules for all nes games now? I understand toad stated that it is not posted eveywhere, but if it seems everyone came to a consensus that this should apply to all nes runs. Shouldn't there have been an effort made to ensure that everyone running nes games see this in the rules of their perspective game? It's boggling me that this doc is not in the official rules, he was also not told about this on previous submissions, and now being pointed out that his skills are good enough to do it again because the run is gonna be considered invalid. But at the same time you're telling him don't be discouraged and to keep running the game after reading this thread. That's a bit exasperating to say the least. Think about how Dai feels about that. To tell someone that followed the rules according to what is written and saying they have the skills to do it again after all the attempts they did to get there can come off as insulting and discouraging.

I personally know Dai, we lived close enough to where we could hang out in person and get to know each other. I wouldn't blame him for not running the game anymore after this. I'm at the point myself where if unwritten rules are gonna be scrutinized, not on the game's written rules, and then be enforce unwritten rules before it is set in stone on the rules section and strip people who followed what they were given to follow, then I'm not gonna keep speedrunning. This is starting to sour my fun of speedrunning and it's not just this one thread that has done it. It seems to be happening a lot through speedrun.com games. I'll still be around to hang out with those who I frequent on their channels and there's definitely no ill will or feelings as I am the type of person to have open discussions like this and leave it here. But the sour is real with these unwritten/written rules issues. If the goal for any game on speedrun,com is to get people to run their games then things like this really need to get it together.

I don't see what the issue is with Dai's run as the save state that he used starts before he controls the characters which is what is stated in the rules of when to start the run. What difference does it make whether the state starts there or at the team select screen and you start your split at -3 secs when you press to start the game from there? His entire broadcast was posted and if you actually watch the whole thing he does show how to do runs starting with the -3 secs. Since it's not stated in the rules that a full reset is required his preference is to start the state when the stage loads which is right before character control takes place. I don't think it's right to disqualify someone's run if it wasn't clearly stated in the rules before hand that when using a flash cart a reset is required.

Honestly, from a person who was looking to run this game as it is a fun game and not many people run it and looking at a perspective from the outside in, it seems this is being brought up because of Dai rising up the ranks fairly quickly and that PJSalt is building up from someone who is probably thinking along the lines of "how is a new guy to this leaderboard rising so fast, especially if they have already pasted me already?". I know a few of you on this leaderboard and I'm sure you have seen me especially from the Contra community and I mean no disrespect, but just because someone brings this up after Dai has submitted several runs with no issues seems a little too suspect. It's these kind of things that turn people off on speedrunning certain games and then certain games are labeled games that have a toxic and "clique like" communities. Dai is a great retro caster who has a love for Super Dodge Ball because it was one of his favorite games as a child and was willing to spread that positive thing and give this game exposure through his twitch channel. Now something as minute as this has ruined hiim wanting to run it now.

It didn't take me long to rise up to the place I'm in on the Contra any% category and all I have received from everyone on that leaderboard is commendation, encouragement, to keep pressing forward, and to keep improving my time as best as possible. I'm definitely not at Angrylanks skill at that game, but he sure as hell makes me feel like it. Seems Dai is getting the opposite treatment for improving his skills in this game so quickly.

All I'm saying is that before jumping to conclusions and saying you want to strip someone of their run, and one that is legit based on the rules given, come to a consensus and then all the runs going forward at this point in time should follow that. Implementing new rules and enforcing them retroactively doesn't look good nor show any honor for the community of this game which will mark this game as one that is toxic and "clique like".

You don't have to have monetization on for Konami to claim a copyright on your videos. Especially if you're uploading full runs since you're playing the entire game. I believe if you do runs without the game sound on and /or have other sound playing like background music they may not be able to claim it then. Don't quote me on that one though lol. All of my Contra stuff on YouTube has been claimed by Konami and I don't really care as I use YouTube for my personal vod storage/cloud. YouTube's guidelines and requirements for monetization now favor those who are already established and won't allow you to monetize unless you meet certain high marks.

I'm with you, Zmick, and anthole on this issue. Both players should be doing the game together and not getting a game over for either player. It's one thing to take a death like in snow field, but it changes the category in my opinion when someone gets a game over and let one solo until they are needed and borrow a life. Like Zmick mentioned if you wanna keep records like DK and Mr. K's you could make separate categories like "2-player" and "Co-op", but then making a new category will just clutter up the LB and it will start becoming messy. The key here is what's in the rules of the run though. It doesn't specify if that the run that if either player gets game over the run needs to restart. As much as i don't like game over manips it is within the current rules of the run. I'm all for consensus on specifying and changing rules than making new categories. I'm not a mod of the game though so it's up to the mods to decide on rule changes.

To touch a bit on your comment Remz, there are significant differences between the US and Japanese versions of the game. The biggest is that you can skip level summaries in the Japanese version which approximates to around a 23 second difference in a finished run since you can't skip level summaries in the US version. The second difference which is not so significant is that the Japanese and US versions use RNG differently. In reality you're not gonna get the same experience playing both versions. So to mesh them together as one category would not work out.