I just created Legend% as a category on the leaderboard. Also, I noted something else while playing around with the glitch.

You actually don't have to create the initial file (the one you are inheriting skills from) on heroic difficulty because the difficulty is eventually determined from the file you are merging into. However, that would theoretically allow to play almost the entire game on easy mode and then switch to heroic for the final fight and still get the achievement (at least that is what I assume, I didn't actually try it out yet) which kinda defeats the purpose of the category.

So I'd say that "playing on heroic for the entire time" should be a requirement for Legend%

Thanks for the video, it's really informative. Big props for that.

Regarding the chapter-skip-issue. Generally, the skip itself is not a problem for any% as that category is literally "start from X, get to Y". For 100% it will probably be impossible to utilize it, because the very definition for that category demands to beat every (non-training) stage and thus skipping stages would be banned.

Your Idea to ban out-of-game actions during the run sounds plausible to me and also was my first Idea while watching the video. Will add this to the leaderboard-ruleset for all categories. It might also be useful to explicitly require that one HAS to start from a "file" with no existing saves, but that I won't do just yet - I wanna hear other opinions first.

For glitchless. The problem with banning level 1 respec is, that you always get the 19 extra stat points when you respec for the first time. So the only way to avoid that glitch would be to completely ban respeccing which is definitely not something I would want to do

E: btw., Hydra skip should actually be possible as hydra is not the last stage in zone 4.

Btw, regarding that glitch ... obviously it's necessary to start from a "clean file" for any category so it will be necessary to create all necessary save files during the run, but that much should be obvious, I suppose (I also just added that to the ruleset for all categories, just to be extra safe)

Interesting, so there ARE useful glitches in sonny 2. In that case, even a glitchless/no major glitches category could be interesting. But then we would need to clarify what qualifies as a (major) glitch. multi-class is an obvious case but there are also AI glitches (entering certain fights alone) and that "draggin items to the next stage" stuff (which wouldn't qualify as "major" but is technically still a glitch).

Regarding that immunity strats. Dunno how good it is to go for them on easy as the enemys are mostly of no danger to you anyways, but on heroic this is definitely invaluable, but even on easy ... I can imagine that there are some REALLY fast combinations that you can run with that glitch. Will definitely look into that myself once I find time to do sonny-related stuff again.

But generally ... the entire leaderboard needs a full clean-up, for sure. .... and runners.

yeah, the early stuff is not the problem. getting the sword is 1/2 and also only 3 minutes into the run, so that is fine. Moon-Struck Horrors should be ~25% if you do 1 training fight in zone 2 and you can also get a backup weapon in tribal blade which performs almost equally well. But the main issue is indeed Zone 3 where you basically have to not only get specific encounters but also have them drop specific items - on top of the randomness, many of the later battles already include (baron anyone?).

While I'm generally not a big fan of RNG mainpulation, having it for certain things would definitely improve quality of life.

So, a while back I was thinking about how I could motivate myself to actually start running any% glitchless again (I made a few improvements that could theoretically save 2-3 minutes with near-perfect RNG) but then again, it's kinda frustrating having to reset over and over again due to enemies not dropping stuff. So I came to wonder about how the RNG in this game works and if there is a way to actually manipulate it.

But then again, Sonny is a flash game and chances are that it doesn't even have a standalone RNG and just uses the browser's/script language's one. In that case, there'd probably be no way to manipulate the RNG in a way that works identically on all systems.

Still ... I wonder if someone here knows how to break games open and actually check for such things. Because I definitely can't do that. :D

by the way, regarding potential categories. For now I would assume that all we really need for now would be the following:

• any% (basically replacing the current "any% (easy)")
• any% (Legend)
• 100%

If at some point, someone actually wants to start either different classes or difficulties (or stuff like "all achievements"), we can always add more categories to the leaderboard.

Well, the way it is currently handled, the 100% run also includes Legend% as you need to unlock that achievement to even get to zone 7 (at least, if we assume that you begin from a clean file). Also, as long as there is no actual evidence of a Legend% run I won't touch anything yet. However, if you manage to actually finish one in a decent time (whatever "decent" means for Legendary%, that is), you may simply add it as a regular heroic% run with the added note that it is legendary% and then I will ad Legendary% as a category to the leaderboard (and maybe remove the other still unused categories until someone actually starts to run them)

As for myself ... I am definitely interested in 100%, probably as a psychological (because their postgame is beyond ricidulous), but unfortunately I am not finding time/motivation to rout something as big from scratch. So an actual Legendary% route would be amazing for that as well as it could serve as a solid basis for 100%

(somehow I managed to completely miss this post, lel)

Well, I didn't read everything in detail but basically the Idea is to use biological as well. Let's say, I played through heroic with all 3 classes once and this is, what I figured out.

Hydraulic is basically the worst option. You can beat legend runs with them, obviously, but if you want to beat the later zones somewhat reliably (without ridiculous amounts of grinding) you more or less HAVE to switch to cold-blood at some point and cold-blood is slow as heck.

Psychological is definitely the best option for 100% as they can solo-curbstomp zone 6 and 7 with the exception of twin guardians and maybe judge (depends on your gear).

When not factoring in deaths, biological should be slower than psychological on heroic difficulty, as the shock-combo becomes very powerful as the difficulty goes up, but on the other hand, biological appears to be the most reliable option for zone 5, so when factoring in resets, it might actually be the best option for any% heroic. On the other hand, even for any%, psychological is ridiculously strong against clemons, hydra, colonel and heroic!mayor while still having a solid zone 5, even on legend runs. So they might still be the better option overall. But this would require running both classes in comparision.

yeah, the problem is that you can also encounter shamans of blades during training and this is ..... slow.

Generally, it's hard to make general statements about training as there is so much variance. :/

yeah, I also think it is. But only, if you are lucky. I think, the best you could possibly do is doing like 2 training fights and getting menders weapon in one and breakers in the other - then you can probably oneshot like everything that is not a ZPCI ... but this requires TAS-levels of luck.

Another good thing about grinding is, that you get shatter bolt earlier and shatter bolt is both safe and fast (as it skips enemy turns) - also, it allows you to throw out dux earlier. So yes, grinding should be faster on average.

Well, I know of 2 ways to softlock the game.

1: The game softlocks, if baron misses himself with a projectile shot. (which happened in your case)

I believe, this happens,. because the game waits until the projectile reaches either the left or the right end of the screen. But as baron attacks himself there is no horizontal distance to be covered and thus the projectile doesn't move (actually it moves slowly up for some reason). As a result, the projectile will never reach the right/left end of the screen and thus softlocks the game.

2: if you hold space during a cutscene-only-stage, before the cutscene starts.

Apparently, this can skip the cutscene without ending the stage thus softlocking the game. On combat stages the doesn't happen, I guess, this is, because the "end combat" trigger is not related to the cutscene that is skipped. To avoid this, don't hold spacebar on cutscene-only stages until the text actually appears. Once the cutscene startet, it is safe to skip it.

well, runeblade isn't actually that important for that issue as it is just a zone 2 weapon while unholy runeblade is more of a zone 3 weapon (same level requirement as annihilation) - and for the next few fights, having runeblade isn't even that important as there are few damage checks until clemons. (it is still helpful, though)

The more important question is: how much time do you lose, if you don't get unholy runeblade, and this is kind of hard to answer.

There are a few other weapons that can eventually bring you back to "high damage strats" for at least most fights (Shandor's Darkstaff and Poseidon's Fury).

Clemons is a guaranteed time loss (and an increased chance of death) but it's definitely less than you'd lose by redoing baron fight. The most important question will thus be, how much time you lose overall if you don't get Runeblade from Baron but Shandor's from Clemons.

So yeah, as I said ... it might be worth, resetting like once if you don't get runeblade but definitely not like 4 or more times.

The problem with save and quit is, that it wastes a lot of time and outright getting the weapon 1st try would be faster. But it might be worth, resetting once for the weapon given, how fast the fight is with the 1v1 strategy. Even after 1 reset, unholy runeblade is such a strong weapon, that it is probably still faster on average, when you get it the 2nd time than running without it would be.

Speaking of auto save. I have simply used it until now but I never actually tested if it costs time. This is also something that needs to be tested for both games.

(wow, someone else, who is actually running this game? :D)

Well, if it actually saves time, it would be incredibly helpful. The question is, if it increases the game's processing speed or if it simply generates more cps without affecting actual animation speed. This will definitely require further testing.

Unfortunately, I don't really have the time to do this atm.

Btw ... it would be good, if you were to capture the cursor in-game because it'd be kinda helpful to actually see, what you are doing - especially for a cursor-based technique.

I'd like to request moderation for Sonny 2: https://www.speedrun.com/Sonny_2

I submitted a run ~3 weeks ago where I improved my previous WR but it hasn't been veryfied yet ... in fact, the only mod for this game hasn't been online for ~6 weeks. Moreover, his profile doesn't include any means to contact him (which is not good in general as the only mod of a game). Also, it appears like I'm the only person at the moment who is putting serious effort into running and routing this game anyway ... well ... :V

(Moderation for Sonny 1 is not necessary as one of the mods there appears to be active)

Just for clarifying the rules. If we talk about 100% does that mean that we are allowed to import new game+ data or not.

Or to put it more precisely: Are we forced to play no grind run (for the legend achievement) or not?

Currently, nothing mentions when the run starts and when it is finished . So my suggestion would be as follows:

any%: like it is already done. Timing starts upon confirming the options after class selection and ends when the "congratiulations" screen shows up.

any% glitchless: same as any%

100%: timing starts upon confirming options and ends when the victory screen after defeating sinjid shows up.

Current 100% videos (including my own submission) split after sinjid's or the last shadow's health was decreased to 0 but this can cause some inconsistency if teammates act after the kill or if you take damage over time. The resulting time difference can easily be adjusted for already existing videos (should add something like 2 seconds to the time)

thats fine as well. As long as there IS an active mod for this game xD Actually I prefer it that way. Dylaneka has been part of the sonny community for approximately one year now while I joined it ... a few days ago? So Dylaneka is definitely better suited for the job. xD

I request to become supermod for Sonny ( http://www.speedrun.com/Sonny ) as the only mod has been inactive for 3 months+ and is only available over twitch where he also appears to be inactive. Also, besides my own submissions there is at least one more speed run from a runner present on the leaderbord that isn't on speedrun.com, so one can assume there might be more unverified submissions. Also, I am currently doing some routing as well as in-game mechanic research anyway so I definitely have the time and knowledge to do this. Thing is, as of now, the leaderboard is dead and will remain dead, as noone is there to accept no runs whatsoever.

Edit: Also, I noticed that there are no set rules when the time starts and when it stops. Would like to fix this at well. Generally, this game needs more love than it gets at the moment. :D