Of course, if you, as moderators, simply add categories and filters, there's no need to delete any of the runs.

And if the glitch really is caused in that port regardless of the mod, this changes everything...

Hmm, that's strange, because I've never seen that happen in any version of the game before the mod's release. The 2006 port, shit as it may be, never gave me any bugs that weren't already present in the PS2 version. If what you're saying is true, then is the bug occurring due to more recent operating sytems and/or faster hardware?

I don't have a clean install of the game at the moment and it would be too annoying to do so, but nothing I said was wrong. Maybe the bug is being caused not directly by the mod, but the mod may be making it more guaranteed... hmm.

Well I may as well expand on my experience with this version. Basically I played it at the time on windows XP and like pretty much everyone who played it, it ran like shit. I could barely get 60 fps on the lowest resolution setting. I'm not exactly sure at which point the modding tools (for making texture mods for example) surfaced but I reckon it was sometime the next year and I got into it fairly early on. I made a lot of skins for the game, I played the game quite extensively both on PC and PS2 (both Dante's Awakening and Special Edition) and thanks to the SS mod appearing a few years ago, I got back into playing the game on PC, as I no longer have a PS2.

I own the HDC on PS3 and of course have also the current HDC on PC with the latest version of the mod and I have played all DMC games every year, especially DMC3 and 4, for many days, weeks and months at a time. I've done perfect S rank runs, I've done Easy mode/Bloody Palace speedruns (never recorded one, just did them casually over the years), I've emulated the game as well and I've experimented with every weapon and Style combination since the game's release.

So with everything laid out with my gaming and modding experience, I can say with 100% certainty that enemies have never despawned on any version of the game, except the 2006 port and, in my experience, only happens with the mod installed. However, though it kind of goes without saying, my current PC build is wildly different from the one I had when I first started playing the PC version and while I modded the game for a long time, I also went through about 3 different PC builds in between and before the mod surfaced, I had no reason to play the game again, especially thanks to the PS3 HDC version.

And bear in mind, during all this time, I've inhabited several DMC message boards, namely Phantom Babies, Gamefaqs, Hell's Atelier and owned my own forum at one point, and I joined Infernal Works about 3 years ago and I actively browse the Steam DMC message boards too. And I've never encountered a single bug report of enemies despawning that didn't have the mod installed.

So you can see why I'm extremely doubtful of the bug existing at all without the mod.

If there IS a reason for it happening, then the cause should be identified, because it's pretty clear to me it's a recent occurrence that's gone under the radar for far too long.

Can you prove that this person didn't have the mod installed? Because simply having it installed is enough.

You can customize exactly how many extra jumps, dashes, Air Tricks, Sky Stars, Trick Ups and Trick Downs as you want with the Style Switcher. You can essentially turn it off by setting it to normal values.

As for me doing speedruns, it's something that's been on my mind for a while but I'm not sure if I have enough free time to dedicate myself to this. Speedrunning takes a lot of time and effort and I have way more fun playing these games for style and I pretty much refuse to use items at all costs, so if I do ever make one, it would be itemless. I'm still interested in seeing how quickly the game can be finished though and I care enough about it to post here.

If you can do both, then... why even make a poll?

@Simoteus Thanks for explaining this to me.

@wiekds Yes, enemy despawns save time, obviously, and that's exactly the point. This bug simply does not exist in any version of the game without the mod. Therefore any time saved from despawns is a metric that shouldn't exist in the game's meta. The mod is simply bugged and if it didn't have this bug, I wouldn't be raising an issue with speedrunners.

@Mekarazium Yes, I'm all for having different categories, I only wonder why they weren't in place the moment the despawning was discovered. I'm baffled nobody realized it due to the mod.

Question, is there a reason why you can't do both?

So invalidating runs due to cheating is kind of ridiculous because it would affect a lot of runs? Why was it even acceptable to allow this bug in speedrunning in the first place? Do you honestly mean to tell me that, prior to playing DMC3SE with the mod, you had no idea this bug never existed in the game? Don't you think that if the game had been released with this bug back in 2006 -- no, 2005, on PS2 -- it'd be well documented by now?

No, it's not kind of ridiculous at all, what's ridiculous is that speedruns are now being accepted with cheating. Because that's what it is. The Style Switcher didn't even exist in 2006, it only surfaced like 4-5 years ago. If what you're saying is true about the PC version being the go-to choice for speedrunning, then people have been dealing with fps drops and poor controller support for much longer than not -- and I did play this version at the time, just as I played every other version of the game.

And again, I'm not saying you should ban the Style Switcher, you should ban runs with despawning enemies because it's essentially cheating. You even said "Nobody running with SS has ever relied on getting despawns" but you seem unwilling to ban runs that include it. Could it be because you do rely on despawns to get your records? This just sounds dishonest to me. I heard from someone I trust who's watched your streams that you will deliberately reset runs on mission 1 or 2 because you didn't get despawning enemies. Sounds like you're relying on this bug quite a lot.

@Simoteus: How can despawns be out of the control of the player if it requires the installation of the mod? I have nothing against using the mod as a patch for the performance issues well documented with the game, but my argument is: if a speedrun includes despawning enemies -- which is impossible in ANY version of the game -- then the speedrun shouldn't be accepted as legit. Essentially, the speedrunner's saving time via cheating, doesn't matter if it's out of their control, you pretty much expect that enemies will despawn with the mod installed. You may as well press F2 and one-shot enemies yourself, in that case. It is absolutely under the player's control. If enemies despawn, which you should know is impossible without the mod installed, then reset the run.

I also agree on placing those filters.

I think you should absolutely separate runs that use the Style Switcher mod, regardless of actually using any settings in it, because it is the cause of enemies despawning and because it also fixes a lot of performance issues with the standalone PC version. As for the current SS version for the HDC, it has its own glitches but it's not a finished version just yet. The HDC version of the game is much more stable so it should also get its own (unmodded) category.

Or just run the game on PS2 hardware or PCSX2 emulator.

@Mekarazium I've been playing DMC3 since Dante's Awakening came out in 2005. I've played every single version of the game. No, enemies have never despawned until the Style Switcher mod.

@SaiyanGaming Nothing wrong with the mod itself, it's clearly designed for fun. Most players don't bother doing runs of the game because it's not that interesting, mod or no.

Hello to all, I just noticed the current "world record" of this game from New Game involves enemies despawning. This is wrong because this bug only exists in the game when you have the Style Switcher mod installed in the stand-alone PC version. Therefore, any run where this occurs should be instantly disqualified. It cannot be a legitimate speedrun as the bug is not present in the game otherwise.