Insstaa's submitted videos on any% perks, any% no perks, New Game + perks & New Game + No perks are all the exact same video. I don't need to explain why this is obviously wrong but I'm curious on how it even happened in the first place.

If the moderators are having trouble with verifying runs correctly or they simply don't have enough time to make sure runs are in the correct categories then I heavily suggest they enlist more moderators to help.

I'm not having trouble verifying runs at all, I think what insstaa did (co-submitting one run to multiple categories) is perfectly acceptable.

I'm going to start by addressing the first thing - submitting a "no perks" run to the "perks" category. This is acceptable (and encouraged, if your no perks run is faster than the perks world record) because a "no perks" run is at no advantage to a run that does use perks. Essentially, anything that is possible without perks is also possible with perks. It would not be acceptable to submit a run that does use perks to the "no perks" category, but insstaa did not use perks in his speedrun.

EDIT to add: Maybe it would be useful for you to think of the 'perks' category as "Perks are allowed, but not required". After all, there is no rule that says you have to use perks in the perks category. There is a rule that you must not use perks in the "no perks" category.

It should be a praised achievement that the perks WR is held by someone who didn't even use perks, considering how much they can speed up gameplay.

Second - submitting a new game (any%) run to NG+. Realistically, I don't see any issue with this. In the No Perks category the only difference between Any% and NG+ is the starting point of the run, so insstaa's run of course qualifies for this category.

If you have any other questions about this then feel free to contact me at my discord (Lily#4949), but I promise that no mistake was made when I approved insstaa's runs.

I have a couple problems with this.

Just because someone gets a WR in an easier category that also beats the time in a completely different/ harder category doesn't mean that they also get the WR for that category. To complete a no perks run, you must complete a run using no perks. To complete a perks run, you must complete a run while using perks. If you're allowed to get away with using perks in a no perks run or using no perks for a perks run then what's the point of having those sub-categories in the first place?

And the same goes for any% and New Game +. Why have those categories at all then if you can submit any run there? Justifying it because of difficulty doesn't make it right. We have separate categories because we want different challenges to speedrun. If any run can be anywhere then we have no need for additional categories at all and we can in fact just stick to one.

I would much appreciate it that you fix/add the rules for each category so they reflect what you truly think would go there. Also this isn't the first time someone has gotten a WR run on an easier category that beats a harder category with this example being Blaziken's Hour 1 no perks run that's 200ms faster than his Hour 1 perks run which makes me question why he wasn't received the same treatment as Insstaa here? As a moderator I can kinda understand the concept of stretching the very vague rules a bit for a friend but if we can't follow the rules then why have them at all, yeah?

Alright. Let's take this one step at a time.

Just because someone gets a WR in an easier category that also beats the time in a completely different/ harder category doesn't mean that they also get the WR for that category.

Correct. The issue here is that "perks" and "no perks" are not 'completely different', they're the same run where one has a specific restriction that the other does not. (Think minimum captures vs any% in Mario Odyssey)

To complete a perks run, you must complete a run while using perks.

"Perks" category does not mandate you use perks, it only says that perks are allowed. Hence it should be obvious that a run that does not use perks also fits the rules of the perks category.

If you're allowed to get away with using perks in a no perks run or using no perks for a perks run then what's the point of having those sub-categories in the first place?

The point is that people have the option to play without perks. No such protection is needed for those who play with perks, because it is the faster category.

And the same goes for any% and New Game +. Why have those categories at all then if you can submit any run there?

For 'no perks' runs, NG+ can basically be considered a meaningless distinction. The only real difference is that timing starts on Hour 1. I don't see any reason not to allow a no perks new game run in the NG+ category, as it actually fits the rules of NG+ exactly.

My original intention for NG+ was that it would be where perks are at their most significant, since you can start with every perk unlocked rather than having to budget your points during the run.

We have separate categories because we want different challenges to speedrun.

NG+ no perks and Any% no perks are not different challenges.

If any run can be anywhere

Any run can't be anywhere. Every 'no perks' run follows the 'perks' rules, but not every 'perks' runs follows the 'no perks' rules. (square and rectangle)

To put this into perspective - the perk that increases MAX HP might not help you in a run where you never went below 31 health in the first place. One could realistically play with the HP perk and it would have parity with 'no perks'.

why he wasn't received the same treatment as Insstaa here

Blaziken should feel free to submit his Hour 1 no perks run to the Perks category if he wants. I will accept it (due to my above reasoning).

I can kinda understand the concept of stretching the very vague rules a bit for a friend

insstaa is not my friend, so this is not relevant.

If you want to have a conversation about how the categories could be revised, I'm open to having that conversation. But I stand by my original ruling on this.

If we keep pretending all categories are the same then it devalues the point of having them. They all are completely different with new game + skipping out on an entire section that Any% players have to go through and with perks you can speed up the game tremendously. And the reason why I assume you're insstaa's "friend" is that he has the role of a mod which there are only 2 ways of gaining the mod status which are: 1.If the moderator for this game hasn't submitted any pending runs for over a month which then you can talk with the Speedrun.com staff and get a mod role so then you can be the one to submit runs. Or 2. You've been entrusted with the moderator role by a Super Mod as you're seen/known as being capable of being a moderator. I've got a strange guess that you were the one to gift him that moderator role but it's rather irrevelant.

What's the most important thing I've discovered is that the rules for New Game + is this: "Timing starts on starting Hour 1 and ends on the final generator exploding in Finale." Now you've made these rules and Insstaa has gotten away with submitting 2 runs that contradicts these rules. I'm not sure why you're now against these rules considering you were the only one to make them. Another flaw I've found is that No Perks and Perks have technically absolutely no rules applied to them that I can see.

The only thing I truly want from this is for you to fix the rules so they don't contradict with Insstaa's runs and add more rules so categories won't be so vague (if you have the time.)

Peace

For one, nothing in the rules said this is not allowed. I'm a moderator and long term speedrunner, so I should know right? For two, why does this affect you? Those runs have plenty of mistakes and one of them has already been beaten. If you have such a problem with them go on and beat them, they won't be world record. For three, since all of the individual level categories can be filled from separate levels of an any% run, I think this is perfectly fine. Double, Triple and even Quadruple world records have existed and will exist in this in these games. If you have a good run, there is nothing wrong with submitting it to other categories if it fits the rules. This isn't anything personal, nothing to come across as an attack, I'm just defending my point. Hope this clears things up.

As I've stated before there are rules in New Game + that contradicts two of your submitted runs which I'm unsure whether it was you or Melon who made them. And there is a clear lack of rules like you said that affects Perks and No Perks.

As both of you are moderators I'm expecting you all to make sure the rules for every category and sub-category exists and is correct. Whether I have enough time to actually beat your record or not is irrelevant as the rules will still remain the same, with me as the one slipping through the rule's grasp.

I wish you all the best of luck for your moderating careers and I hope you improve this speedrunning community as a whole.