I'm just posting that I'm completely for moving it to Misc.

Hi Everyone,

I'm a relatively new runner when it comes to Forbidden Memories, but I've been part of the speedrun community since 2012. I'm vouching for creating a subcategory for No RNG Manipuation (With a good ruleset to keep it from being too arbitrary). Here's my reasoning on why it should be used over the flag.

1. The Flag doesn't do its job in more ways than one.

While the idea of a flag is good in theory, the execution of the flag doesn't follow. The goal of a leaderboard should be to make information as easy to understand as possible. That doesn't just go for runners though, it also goes for those who are looking to learn the game, as well as those who simply watch. (Remember, those who simply watch may become runners someday, so making something easier for them to understand is key). The dropdown menu simply doesn't do that. Most people don't even see the flags, and go immediately to the top time for comparison. When you're comparing the top time of RNG Manip ( 1:19:28) to the top time of No Manip (3:12:39) a lot of people are going to be confused. I have viewers all the time jump in and immediately bring up the 1:19, and almost never even see the 3:12 time because the flags just aren't used.

The flag also doesn't fix the issue with regards to a fear of someone cheating by still using manipulation. Someone can still right now submit a run with the tag of No RNG Manip and still cheat. So when people use this as a reason for why we shouldn't have a subcategory, it comes across as wasted point and doesn't solve the issue. I also think that fear of cheating shouldn't be a basis for not making something a category. People will always cheat, no matter how well defined the rules are. We should do our best to make a good ruleset, but we shouldn't let that deter us from helping competition.

2. The runs are too different for comparison

This is the big one for me. I've seen a lot of conversation by some that No RNG manip is the same run. While I agree that they are similar, saying they are the same run is like saying Ocarina of Time Any% and Ocarina of Time No IM/WW are the same run. You get to the same end goal, but how you get there is vastly different. Both categories require skill and knowledge of the game. It's very obvious that No RNG Manipulation has a lot more luck and deviation. Someone who has more skill and knowledge can be beat by someone who has slightly less skill and more luck. But that's OKAY. There is still so much skill and knowledge needed to consistently achieve good times. Compare myself to someone like Aerius who is the WR holder. If we raced right now 10 times. I'd guess that he'd beat me at least 8/10 times. Why? He can A-Tec consistently faster than me, he knows how Final 6 works much better than I do, and I am more prone to make mistakes in farming/falling for AI tricks.

No RNG Manip requires you to be able to take different decks and make them work. Especially in a race setting, you don' have the luxury of resetting for multiple hours just to get the perfect deck. You have to take what the game gives you and use that deck to you best ability. A more skilled player will know how to use most decks, compared to a newer player. It's also fascinating how no 2 runs are the same, and that the strategies change depending on the drops you get. Say Isis decides to drop 3 Dragon Treasure fairly quickly. You might try meadow mage for a bit to get a MBD to pair with those DT. Or maybe you just make a push for the Final 6 with that. But let's say she drops a Widespread. Now you have more options. You can A Tec Peg, you can A Tec Seto 2. You have more options, but must still make the right decision in that moment. The decision making tree in No RNG Manip is huge, and one of the main reasons I was drawn to the category. To say that these two categories are in essence the same is just wrong. Both categories are great! I have no ill will towards RNG Manipulation and understand why runners run that category. I have a ton of respect for them. But the truth is it's not interesting to me, and as someone who runs No RNG Manip, I feel like having to compare my times to something that I feel so vastly different sucks

3. It's Good For Growth

I'd like to use the analogy of " A Bigger Net catches more fish." Lets face it. No RNG Manipulation is a much more newer player friendly run than RNG Manip. It's much easier to watch someone do a run and say "Hey that looks easy and fun, I'd like to try." I actually had a well known speedrunner come up to me and say he wanted to join, but was confused by why the no RNG Manip/RNG manipulation thing existed. He just wanted to learn the game and play what I was using. Having a dedicated sub category that we can point to and say "Hey when you join this community, you have a board where people can compete." Is a lot easier than having someone join and realize the way they want to enjoy the game and go fast in, has 0 chance of competing with someone who runs RNG manipulation.

Growth in No RNG Manipulation is good for RNG Manipulation too! I'm not saying everyone that learns no RNG Manip is going to just jump on board to RNG Manipulation as well. But the more knowledge they gain and learn, the more likely they are to at least experiment with RNG Manipulation. Let's face it, the idea of very precise inputs is not exactly what everyone is looking to do when they start learning a Card Game Speedrun. Which is why having No Manip on the leaderboards as well is a great introduction to the community. The reality is, both categories haven't had submissions lately. Outside of GFC's recent RNG Manip PB, no one has submitted a run in 9 months. The same goes for No RNG Manip. I've talked to a few runners, and they definitely felt pushed away by the community when what they enjoyed running was deemed only good enough for a flag. Recently we've seen a ton of new people show interest, and we've had some big races already. In fact we have a huge race Planned on the 18th of May at 12 PM EDT. Now would be a perfect time to initiate a sub board, that not only gives these potential new runners a place to submit, but also convinces a lot of old boys to come back and play again. Growth is good. I want to see both categories succeed.

Overall, I just want to say that while being new to this community, I really want to be a big part of it! I think RNG Manipulation should absolutely be the default category and the "main" category that people see when they check the leaderboards. I'm not trying to make No Manip take over and make RNG manipulation irrelevant. I just want a place to play against my buds and compare times. Speedrunning in itself is arbitrary, we shouldn't limit what other people enjoy doing because we think it's arbitrary. Fun should be the goal, and I believe this solution allow for all groups to have fun.