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q944716 years ago

Typing "coords" in the cheat commandline reveals X, Y, Z position. Not to be pessimistic, but since the game can be so random and precise, it's likely we'll need to get more precise numbers, maybe by using Cheat Engine or another memory viewer/editor ?

One can use a tool called GOBExt to extract stuff from those big .gob archives and get loads of .cog scripts. Usually there's something that indicates, which level does a script correspond to. So for example: SHS is Shambala Sanctuary and SHW is the scrapped level - but at least one still used in vanilla SHS ! If they weren't, then why would the one named "SHW_BossCinematic.cog" be included with the official patch ? When it comes to modeling the level for full 3D preview I can't say anything - but there's this script that has definitions of hints and developers' comments. Enjoy:

Use your imagination. I wasn't the game's developer and I don't want to spread any possibly false information.

I'll try writing that no-clip cheat. Be patient - this requires studying the scripts for necessary functions, which takes time.

Potential shortcuts:

Skip the "Whose dreams..." cutscene by jumping like drawn here: https://s2.postimg.org/l2jqkfdzt/Jones39.jpg The first curved jump is somewhat tricky. At least it's right at the beginning of the level so there's not so much to redo in case of failure. The second jump to the final destination doesn't have to lead here - you might well bounce off to the lower floor and still skip the cutscene - at the cost of one additional climb.

Get out of water directly to the metallic floor by climbing like here: https://s21.postimg.org/4xyxmu8av/Jones35.jpg https://s21.postimg.org/pw9oynxjb/Jones36.jpg https://s21.postimg.org/jwlxv0cqv/Jones37.jpg

It's possible to move blocks by less than one "ideal" square ! Proof: https://s18.postimg.org/4hnx5k1jd/Jones40.jpg How ? Just crawl as close as you can to the corner that the block and the wall next to it make. Stand up, rotate a bit so you can trigger the "attempting to move it" animation and perform the move. The thing is that the game seems to know, how far it'll be pulled, so you can move it even when normally Indy would respond "Can't pull this any further". https://s18.postimg.org/et09y7t8p/Jones41.jpg https://s18.postimg.org/hblyyweyx/Jones42.jpg Note that I haven't tried pushing it this way. Seems possible, try it !

Another thing: performing the morph-jump is slightly farther with rifles than with pistols. Still, too short to reach eg. the "unslippering" trigger in Nub's Tomb.

No progress with the even more extended jumps. When trying, I usually got stuck in the standing animation and got Indy frozen permanently.

q944716 years ago

Once I have more free time I'll experiment with macros and combinations of jumps.

For now ? Do one less jump in Mines to access the green socket by jumping directly to its platform. I can do this from here: https://s2.postimg.org/3y7rtsfh5/Jones29.jpg

Once you're sure the boss in Nub's Tomb is going to die with the last shock, keep on chalking until the cutscene starts - movement allowed.

There's this button near the trapdoor that needs to be activated so we can use the elevator in Nub's Tomb. Quick study of both scripts shows that in the patched version player gets frozen immediately, then there's a 0,2 seconds delay and the cutscene starts, whereas in the original one firstly there's a one second delay, then the cutscene starts and then the player is frozen ! So this allows for a full one second movement in the original version - useful ? Maybe... maybe there's more stuff that might come in handy in different scripts. We'll see. Just in case someone out there is interested in studying them, here's a bundle: http://www116.zippyshare.com/v/QCTxBdQm/file.html And how do I easily compare them ? With a program named Meld. Here's a sample of how it looks when there are differences in files - using the one I described above. https://s14.postimg.org/yaqh5140x/compare.png (yes, there are even more differences, but they aren't related to speedrunning)

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q944716 years ago

I don't know what's going on with that savegame - works fine for me. Could it be because it was made using wireframe rendering ? Here's the same one using normal rendering: http://www73.zippyshare.com/v/RGbjERSS/file.html If it still doesn't work, here's what's going on there: https://s14.postimg.org/wljyd0cgx/Jones22.jpg I'm standing close to the area that triggers the cutscene with the dialogue "These pedestals look [...]". From there just morph-jump and do the rest I described in previous post.

Question: is there really a way to make an even more extended jump by combining different animations ? While reading comments on one of your older videos () I found this one interesting: "You can also combine the sideways roll with ¤non-rolls¤, which could be ¤very¤ interesting. By messing up the key binds something fierce, I was able to make it combine the side-roll and the long-jump! On default, these are the impossible keystrokes: LCtrl->Hold Z->Left->Hold Forward->Hold Shift->LAlt I can not do it reliably (at all) even with different keybinds, so I'd need macros or something to test it properly. So far it seems to be a slightly longer long-jump, like the slightly longer roll" Has anyone managed to do this even with macros ? If so, maybe we could finally have consistent setup for the Babylon skip or jump directly to the trigger that removes "slippery" property from those platforms in Nub's Tomb. I know this still wouldn't be valid in a run, unless it's classified as TAS, but I'd just like to know, if it works.

Thank you for the scripts ! Onto comparing them and studying the differences !

One more thing... "Thanks for that cog! I think it's amazing Now it'll be much easier to fly around to areas I want to explore. " Should I write something else, let's say a "ignore player" (normally set by becoming invisible) or walk-through-walls toggleable cheat, or even combine some to allow exploring even more areas ?

q944716 years ago

OK, I managed to find some minor time savers:

http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/KFZOHg7B/file.html

Teotihuacan:

  1. It's possible to push the button to open all doors that close automatically in that spiral route to the gears room without cutting down the web - just crawl close enough, get up and push. Any time saved ?
  2. After pulling those pillars that raise the statue, there's a short break before the statue-raising cutscenes start. So after the pulling animation ends, immediately turn to the closest wall and attempt to draw somthing with a chalk - once the drawing is finished, the cutscene should be going, but you'll be allowed to move normally or use the inventory menu. The third one triggers another cutscene that shows door opening - maybe we could use the trick to unfreeze Indy in that one as well ?
  3. A simple morph-jump to skip climbing animation.
  4. This cutscene preserves movement that was active once it started. So hold the up arrow to run and then press ctrl to start it - you should be inside with the music playing even before the cutscene finishes.
  5. Morph-jump and once the gun holstering animation is present, open the inventory and choose Fish Idol - it'll be put in the initial cutscene you get after visiting this room for the first time.

Don't attempt to use morph-jumps to get through the "open spaces" in that corridor that allow to see Idols' rooms - those are just invisible walls.

Infernal Machine: Use the exact same trick, that unfreezes Indy after drawing, after picking up Azerim's Part:

I also attached a savegame showing that you can abuse the crawling-ascending trick to get to one upper level without even returning to the room, in which you normally put Urgon's Part, but still the elevators are out of order, so no progress this time. Something tells me I'll need to study both the original and patched scripts for that level to find out, what was so broken that the developers decided to rewrite. Could you attach the whole "cog" folder from patched version ?

q944716 years ago

I couldn't manage to make your setup work for me - all the time I kept on getting stuck in one of those platforms. There's something else in addition to my previous complaint about the randomness. Here's another savegame, similar to the previous one: http://www10.zippyshare.com/v/ALvk29tB/file.html Once the savegame is loaded, hold Z and down arrow all the time - I kept on getting different results and don't know, what causes the randomness. Usually this setup allows to drop "perfectly" down to your death, sometimes to bounce off those platforms to land down safely.

And remember the "wowing sound" ? Here's what I can get from the savegame you uploaded: https://s18.postimg.org/85l82zmop/Jones10.jpg https://s18.postimg.org/gdn5nzel5/Jones12.jpg :D

q944716 years ago

I thought more about using it for finding triggers or parts of areas that don't have a trigger property - to skip cutscenes, perhaps. Still it's nice to see that it's used even for pure fun, like exploring inaccessible areas. Thank you good sir for the opinion. :)

I wanted to see, whether anything can be done to make the "falling down" setup more consistent. Maybe... grab the pullable block to be positioned at a "perfect angle" and then do some acrobatics, like roll back to even cancel the animation in mid-air to land safely ? Well... even then there's so much randomness that you have to witness it yourself. Use this savegame: http://www58.zippyshare.com/v/18sgR72p/file.html and compare the results, which should be identical, but won't be:

  1. hold 'Z' all the time and the hold 'down arrow'
  2. hold 'Z' all the time, press 'down arrow' once and one more time when the animation finishes
  3. press 'Z' and then 'down arrow' an then release them. do this once more after the animation finishes I don't know why the game behaves like this. Sometimes I got stuck in the "slippery" floor, sometimes I died from fall damage, sometimes I kept on bouncing these platforms to land safely. Any ideas for improvements ?
q944716 years ago

I watched it - the problem is:

  • I have memory of a goldfish so I might have not remembered all the stuff you presented
  • Still I wanted everything to be written here rather than analyze the stream and what has been done there.
  • Request: raise your microphone volume. I could barely hear anything without system volume and speakers at their maximum levels. Speech should have much higher priority than game sounds.

I really doubt there's a way to get the Gem Eye without the proper cutscene. I couldn't at least. Try it yourself: in the game's "Resource" directory make another one and name it as "cog". Download this script: http://www23.zippyshare.com/v/CgEo2wZU/file.html to the newly created directory, launch the game, type "urgon_elsa" cheatcode to activate the script, which is basically a togglable fly hack I mentioned some time ago that I will write: jump key to ascend, crouch to descend. Once at position, type the cheat code again to disable it so pickups can be picked up as always.

q944716 years ago

Tested - just as I said there's so much randomness. I couldn't make it this fast. Still, seems pretty optimal.

Some minor stuff:

"Green pyramid":

  • jump directly there instead of climbing https://s1.postimg.org/hy44pd2bz/Jones07.jpg

"Yellow pyramid" :

  • Which way to get up the kindling room is the fastest ? Activate trapdoor or jump like here at 0:20 ? Backtrack or go the way with 2 descending floors ?
  • Backwards roll instead of levitating down.
  • (?) Perform 2 transfers of those blocks surrounding that jackal statue connected with yellow beam, then climb on top of one, crouch to face the statue in front of its face, press action button to sink into this block, put the Gem Eye, run just next to the statue and remove the Eye. Savegame after crouching: http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/UcPh0rMJ/file.html

"Red pyramid":

  • Morph-jump directly to the kindling pickup instead of shimmying, dropping down and climbing.

  • Jump directly onto the minecart in the pit, close to the wheel to pick it up faster ?

  • Repair the other minecart by filling up gas tank first and attach a wheel second ?

"Btw I was able to push out the kid a little bit off the cave and then run him over, but he is invincible lol.. weapons don´t do him harm either. He can get stuck behind the sign next to the cave though and he will be there forever. Completely useless, but funny nevertheless." My turn ! 15:30 Using the same trick on that excavator can make some spades stuck or orient you like this: https://s1.postimg.org/4fx8d2q6n/Jones08.jpg I wonder... maybe create a playlist or a mix with/of all the funny stuff ? Something like this, perhaps ? :

q944716 years ago

I tried to figure out the best strategy for dealing with hyenas and the most optimal I could think of (testing required - it doesn't have to be the best one because I say so) could be this:

  • After the first cutscene finishes, enter the Jeep, rush to the path between "green" and "purple" pyramids - where the cave where we meet Nubian boy is. There should be a hyena coming towards the cave - run it over !
  • The 2 remaining hyenas ¤should¤ be around the "green" pyramid. After dealing with them, try parking close to the cave.
  • Exit, run to the cave, let the cutscene finish.
  • After it's finished there should be 2 or 5 hyenas chasing you. If there were 2 of them, enter your Jeep and drive to the hut - that's where the remaining 3 spawned. If there were 5 - let them run towards you and ill them with a grenade.
  • Wait. The next 3 should spawn either next to the hut or behind the "yellow" pyramid. They spawn in the place which is farther than you.

What's even happening there ? How do I know this ? This took some trial-and-error, playing in Wireframe Mode (so I can see where they spawn) and studying a decompiled script. The algorithm I could describe as close to this:

  • make the first trio behind the "green" pyramid
  • if all three are killed, wait 10 seconds and generate another trio - based on the player's position. Generate in one of two (officially the script says about 3, but I couldn't find the third) places - in that which is farther.
  • if 3 trios have been killed, don't generate any from now on.
  • after the first confrontation with Nubian boy ends, create the remaining two and make them chase player.

So it makes sense to trigger that cutscene when the countdown for creating another trio is present. Oh, and the cutscene where Russians arrive isn't triggered until Nubian boy is gone for good (as the script says) - which means the cutscene can only be activated after you got the Gem Eye.

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q944716 years ago

This green room is doable this way. It's just that from this side it's not possible to venture further into corridors leading to other pyramids.

q944716 years ago

There's much more to it:

Let's go back half a year earlier. I posted this screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/6VWOnqAl.png Even if pulling this block isn't successful on the first try, we're still spending time in the open area, where hyenas are attracted. Could this save some time normally taken to hunt for their locations ?

Right now all I can think about the chalking down being a time saver is when the purple room is done as last OR we need to go to the hole-in-sand quicker.

I guess I'll try every possible permutation with a stopwatch to find the optimal one.

q944716 years ago

"And I need to do a side or forward roll in order to chalk." That's exactly what I was thinking back then when I took the screenshot. Before the getting up animation ends, keep on holding the chalk button until you land safely.

Also, it's possible to avoid climbing these ladders by jumping the same way as you did here at 1:16 https://s8.postimg.org/mdit8fbhh/Jones04.jpg

Buy me a license for something else along with proper hardware and I won't be complaining. :D

q944716 years ago

Savegames incoming: http://www65.zippyshare.com/v/MEZ6Lbt6/file.html

Meroe: I haven't seen a route for that level anywhere yet, but here are my observations which might make the level faster to beat:

Lighting all the firewoods before killing all hyenas will skip a cutscene showing that Russians arrived and them themselves as well.

Would killing hyenas with pistols/rifles/grenades be faster or less random than using a jeep ? (also: attraction instead of repulsion)

Perhaps climb out the shaft of the pyramid we normally unlock first and double chalk down: (a screenshot I posted earlier, just face the pyramid like in the savegame attached) https://i.imgur.com/ldEyR2il.png

We don't need Taklit's Part to pass the hall with that staring eye, that blocks our way as we get close - just try to clip through that block, facing the tiny crevice. It should let us in in no time. Untested, but the Part should as always reappear - this time in Infernal Machine level.

I don't know why, but sometimes the cutscene. where we get the Gem Eye kept on softlocking.

Peru: I managed to find a massive time saver, but there's a problem - whether it works is either random or requires pixel-perfect precision, like the "falling down the electrified ball's hole" strat. There's a savegame with proper positioning - press and hold up arrow and then immediately Alt to perform a running jump - the cutscene with boulder falling down and breaking into pieces should occur. Now... if the camera gets stuck pointing to tke sky, you'll have to try again. You can fix the stuck camera with the resolution change trick, but you'll fin out that the boulder's pieces are not solid and most of the area is still a death zome and some other parts will make Indy stuck after he jumps. If the camera shows the broken pieces and automatically fixes itself, then it worked ! How to even get to the place I'm at in the savegame ? Walk to the hole made by the small rock that fell in a cutscene - it should automatically push you farther.

There's another savegame attached so there's a proof it worked for me after some tries in case you're out of luck.

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q944716 years ago

I don't know, what's wrong. This savegame works normally for me. But I recall seeing a video (can't find it now, or the author) where someone had two versions and used a save created on English version and after loading it on French version, there were invalid audio files playing (like shouting something after firing a gun). I see. Seems like I'm not experienced enough to do this on my first try (especially if I was to perform a run).

Hm... if you could find a way to stress the game so it runs at 21 FPS or less, then IIRC you can get damaged by using Taklit's/Azerim's Part for too long as intended, where with more FPS you can use it as long as you want. Maybe, just maybe it's also related to anomalies such as pickups previews freezing, disabling inventory menu like here (14:39): ? Or to the game crashing when firing certain weapons at certain situations ? And let's not forget Indy's rotation speed - the more FPS the faster it is. The thing is, I'm unsure if the developers had such powerful hardware to test the game with stable 60 FPS or just programmed it like that, thinking it's safe and left out without testing. Or if we have a way to somehow reduce FPS to a certain value.

q944716 years ago

Example: I chalked down to land successfully on a lava pit and know, how exactly big is the area I'm able to walk on: https://s7.postimg.org/s3wrp8xuj/Jones01.jpg If somebody found a way to chalk down to the big zone, let's say by using these walls: https://s18.postimg.org/i61b3vzg9/Jones02.jpg then it would save the whole boss-fooling and lava-solidifying sequences. Attaching a savegame with the place I'm standing next to on the screenshot above: http://www87.zippyshare.com/v/8z61kHZ7/file.html

EDIT: it seems it's not possible to write anything on these walls - tried even after solidifying lava. Still, a good explanation of what I meant.

"wowing sound" ? I don't know, what's that about, everything seems fine for me. Oh, one more thing: I managed to dig out a genuine Windows XP and have stable framreate of 60,02 - 60,05 FPS, which we consider as standard, don't we ? No more anomalies related to framerate !

q944716 years ago

I finally have some free time to experiment more with breaking the game, so here's something:

Recently a way to run the game in wireframe mode was discovered, which can assist us with detecting trigger areas' bounds. I already tried skipping 2 cutscenes in Temple, but unfortunately the developers back then had an idea somebody would be trying to bypass them, so no luck this time. http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=9038&page=2 - starting from post #45

I thought that maybe it's too risky to jump on the bridge rope to perform a backwards roll down to the Monkey Kit pit, so found an alternative way: http://www84.zippyshare.com/v/YdN4IlNA/file.html Roll to your left and chalk down.

Should I try to write a script that turns a cheat code, let's say the one that gives all weapons, to a togglable fly hack, so combined with wireframe mode would help detecting if we should bother with bypassing a trigger "legally" ?

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q944716 years ago

Do not mash the chalk button - hold it instead, right after the rolling animation starts until the drawing animation plays. :)

Would it be faster to just run through the hole in the red (3rd in this run) candle chapel door rather than open it ? This doesn't make use of those high framerate anomalies since I was able to perform this way back around 2000.

q944717 years ago

You don't need ANY medipacks if playing on the easiest difficulty. :) Try: http://www66.zippyshare.com/v/yGj7Ig7w/file.html

About the Aetherium run: some improvements ? And would it be the fastest to always have Indy say the shortest monologue after opening a membrane: save before opening it and keep on reloading until it happens ?

That Lagoon video would be the same as exploring the previously-inaccessible hill in Valley. Just a fun thing rather than an improvement.

q944717 years ago

Possible new strat, very, very precise: You can't just land on those platforms - there's some sort of a barrier that makes Indy slide rather than land like normally and probably gets deactivated in that hole I felt into.

I've already been playing with the ship's doors and couldn't get through them. Anyway, when I record, the game gets stressed pretty well, sometimes I got like 15 FPS. Felt like playing in the good old times once again. :) If someone really wants to see odd stuff in Lagoon, I can make a video. This'll be only for entertainment, it has nothing to do with speedrunning. And just to clarify, my hardware isn't new. It was average even when I bought it 8 years ago.

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q944717 years ago

I checked the savegames you've provided: 'possible 2 spot '- doesn't work, Indy doesn't move at all. Try rotating him so he can be seen and you'll see. 'understeelthing' - doesn't work, Indy gets slowly ejected to the wall on his right. 'Underwoodthing' - works with ~90-100 Hz at 5m16s. Again, very high framerate. If someone manages to do this, then there'll be more advices: You might want to stand around here http://i.imgur.com/7g2f10el.png so after the slide you'll need only to run forward until reaching the block of ice. The Boss' trigger seems to be inactive. Start crawling just before reaching it http://i.imgur.com/LQaks2Rl.png and you should be able to clip through it in ~18 seconds by just holding the forward key. If someone wants to go sightseeing, it's possible to do the same with the last 2 doors and visit the ending areas and get stuck in the last one.

There's no point in making a video as you just need to be positioned like I show in the screenshots/savegames and hold the forward key, just like in the savegames you've provided. It's either related to the extremely high framerate or my hardware/software configuration. In my case when the crawling-clipping is happening, Indy shakes like an epileptic. "But on something like 1024x768 it goes up 75Hz and 800x600 game works at 120Hz" -- around 90 Hz is considered by me as a lot. Does the trick work then if the game's resolution is lowered enough ?

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