Hey @ROMaster2 I just want to say that I'm really grateful that you picked up this little community where I had left off. I never had really had the time to be involved in speedrunning but the CnC franchise is my favourite game series and I wanted to set up a place where people could start to post speedruns!

Quickly off the top of my head it would be completing all secondary objectives.

I can't remember if data pack things contribute anything to additional completion status.

The current any% run just does the basic primary objects iirc

This is the main problem with each of the expansion packs that putting them in the main game would make so many categories would be hard navigate so I think the neatest way IMO is to make each stand alone it's own separste game for the sake of having the leader boards neater.

In the end it makes no real difference, I might go through and add all expansion 'any%' categories this week.

I love that there's more active people for C&C and I usually visit these forums about once a week.

My only advice would be to look on command and conquer 3 forums to see if there are any unpublished speed ones like there were with red alert 3. If you have the opportunity you should check out the red alert 3 threads on this site and see if the other communities have routes or times already

Just a quick reply to all of this, firstly I'm always excited to hear about more people speed running C&C so welcome aboard!

On versions: [Opinion] You should always try an run the fastest version. If 1.0 is the fastest then is obviously that makes the most sense. If I think about some games that allow glitches only on foreign language releases then people pick those because they are faster. As long as it is an officially released unmodified version I believe it is fine.

I genuinely doubt anyone will run this game on a console version.

On timing: [Opinion] Any% (campaign) runs should be completed using RTA where as IL's should use IGT. The great thing with the generation of C&C games is that we have a fairly accurate IGT available if people really feel the need to remove loading times but I don't think this should be an issue. Please check out the RA3 board for Campaign runs and for IL's as well to see how they have it going on over there.

On categories. The only leaderboard that are up at the moment are for any%, if you're interested in the doing the 100% with bonus objectives then I can add 100% campaign categories as well but for a currently more or less empty game I only added the basic any% categories.

On the scrin run: Honestly I didn't view the full run from start to finish in great detail when verifying it back then but I'm glad you've pointed out some stuff I wasn't aware of and I will re-review it in the coming week. I mainly checked to make sure that there wasn't any additional stuff running or funny mods happening.

Yeah I noticed that too about the IL times but I guess they don't show up on the main page at the moment? I'll make a comment about this in the site development thread later this evening. Things are still being built slowly on this site so maybe it is by choice but we don't know haha

EDIT: Actually I'm fairly certain this has to do with the date of the run submitted, if you submitted as today's date they would be there.

Leaderboard updates:

Single Segment Campaigns:

• All Campaign category added
• Multiplayer choices for campaign runs
• Rules updated to match format style of 'General' leaderboard
• Rules show up by default on the leaderboards

Individual Levels:

• All 9 campaign missions added for each respective empire/alliance.
• Multiplayer choices for individual levels
• In-Game time set to default showing

To do:

• Add rules to Individual Levels leaderboard (GBHmichael if you could please help out with this, please refer to the 'Campaign rules' format and style)
• Separate multiplayer games into separate leaderboards (efficiently without creating double of every board hopefully.)
• Remove test runs from the leaderboard after everyone has the chance to see them.
• Add resources. (Splits, missions saves, etc)

(Test run times have been posted by me which are available to view) http://www.speedrun.com/red_alert_3#Soviet_Campaign http://www.speedrun.com/red_alert_3/individual_levels http://www.speedrun.com/red_alert_3/Allies_1_Ride_of_the_Red_Menace#Medium

Is there anything else that I have left out?

Sweet!

I got part of the way updating things. So you guys can take over or wait for me to finish it when I get the time :D

Spoilers: You're all now mods for this game.

How do you feel about the other leaderboards formats that I put in my last reply?

http://www.speedrun.com/red_alert_3#Allied_Campaign

Here is an example of what the current leaderboard looks like with the updated difficulty option. As you can see it shows what difficulty each run was on but doesn't take up the space of having and extra board and making things more difficult to navigate at the moment. (Disclaimer: The speedrun I have submitted it just temporary to display what the board looks like, it is just a YouTube link to the RA3 Allied cutscenes)

As far as it is at the moment I do understand that Easy, Medium and Hard can be viewed as different runs/categories since the strategies are different but from what I understand the secondary and primary missions objects remain the same? I am not arguing that the runs are different because they do need to be played differently for each respective difficulty though the way the leaderboard is structured at the moment simply displays what campaign was completed. If you had to complete a separate/additional primary objective then it would instantly become a separate category.

On the 'Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire' board each category has drop downs for difficulty and RTA/IGT. This is a format that could be easily adopted but as it is in this game and it appears to be in RA3 the difference in the categories is the change in amount of AI, health which are very similar. The objectives that need to be completed for each categories to be complete do not change however.

http://www.speedrun.com/swsote#100%25 (Easy and Jedi being used)

In regards to IL leaderboards; this website already has an IL's feature implemented and that can be viewed in both that AOE and Portal. After researching other games on this site I think these examples and the one before could be very elegant solutions to our current debate.

http://www.speedrun.com/aoe1/individual_levels http://www.speedrun.com/aoe2/individual_levels http://www.speedrun.com/Portal/individual_levels

It's great to see interest in what I thought was going to be one of the least active games of the series so it'd be awesome when do all get on the same level :)

In the end I am happy to do whatever you guys want to do! :)

Apologies if this has been addressed somewhere else but is there a setting for email notifications on runs submitted and forum posts submitted?

This would greatly improve my moderating abilities on a semi-active speedrun game and its categories

I would also like to add that there is no issue with adding in the IL's in as a leaderboard as well. Other RTS game have popular IL leaderboards and I had a feeling when I first created the C&C board on this website that IL's would eventually become a factor, perhaps even the most popular format depending on what unlisted speedruns already existed and what is more competitive.

I've brought up the question of difficulty many times but not in many places that have links available that I can use to support my thoughts on this matter.

[Opinion] As far as I am concerned if increasing the difficulty does not add anything additional to the game in terms of content then there is no valid reason to run on the harder difficulties.

If on a harder difficulty you need to complete more objectives to complete the game then clearly this becomes a question of whether they are separate categories or if the lack of content is considered a 'skip'.

[Opinion] In this situation I would consider the harder difficulty the standard any% category because you are completing a standard amount of content (This argument is not very well articulated). If on a harder difficulty all that is changed is hit point values/ammo drops/AI difficulty or something similar which does not add content then I would suggest that it is a not different category despite the fact that it may require a different strategy and set of skills, the objectives and outcomes of the run are still the same.

This question of game difficulty has come up in the C&C Generals section of the forum and you can view that discussion here: http://www.speedrun.com/Command_and_Conquer_Generals/thread/b582y/1#uansf

The related leaderboard is here: http://www.speedrun.com/Command_and_Conquer_Generals

You guys are the runners of this game at the moment, so ultimately this is your discussion and I just want to act as a moderator for this discussion. Here is my thoughts on a similar question related to C&C speedrunning: http://www.speedrun.com/Command_and_Conquer/thread/efnxi

[Opinion] Whether a run is on Easy or Hard it is by definition still a valid any% run of the respective category (Allied Campaign any% for example). Whilst I don't want this discussion to unfold like the current 'GTA V Classic%' thread I have no issue with a rule change if it is properly discussed and it is a unanimous decision but the way I currently view this subject is like this; Hard difficulties are more impressive and certainly will require more skill, that is simply unquestionable. I think one short term solution for the moment is to add the difficulty of the run on to the leaderboard but I don't think it invalidates the existing Easy or Hard difficulty runs. To use a real world analogy, imagine you are a swimmer competing the Under 16's Mens (or Women's) 50m Freestyle at the Youth World Championships and you set a world record for this category (Under 16's) that is 30 seconds, this will still be a valid record even though the Olympic/World record is 25 seconds, you have still completed the exact same discipline even though it is the Under 16's, the record is still valid although it is perhaps not as impressive as the Olympic/World record.

The sections that are my opinions are just how I have view things for now and am perfectly happy to read your discussions and help make things clearer and more defined.

Whilst my current opinions seem to align more-so with the newer runners I would just like to clarify that I am fairly neutral in this matter and understand that certain games will have a 'historical' ruleset that exists not because they are arbitrary but because they are the most popular category and the most fun. Enjoyment is subjective.

I think we (should) all fundamentally agree that we speedrun games because we enjoy the games we play and whilst I have no issue with standardising difficulty, this does not stop people from completing a speedrun on any difficulty you desire.

What I am happy to do for the moment right now is to update the leaderboard to include speedrun difficulty so that whilst this discussion continues any speedrun that is completed in both the past and future can be shown on the leaderboards. [This has since been done and is updated]

Just remember guys I'm here because I love Command and Conquer so if you have opinions that are contrary to my own just post them in here in a civil manner :). I will have no problem removing post that attack anyone and ask you to resubmit your argument in a more discussion friendly format.

Edit: Typos and grammar.

As far as any% goes I don't see why you can't choose any speed you want and change it mid game too if you are using RTA. I know that the game is barely controllable on max speed (at least for me) but it useful to speed up some sections of escort missions and what not.

If you do a run you basically become the pioneer of the category. You could do a set speed category if you want and that could be added in to the rules but I don't think that is a true any% IMO.

If you have any other thoughts you can check out the IGT/game-speed dicussions over in the Age of Empires 2 (AoE) boards on this site because they have had a similar dicussion before.

As far as my opinnion I think you should be able to change game speed mid game if you can handle it and I would be opposed to 'set speed' runs

I made a detailed comment on your other thread but I'm commenting here so other people can see this who don't visit that sub forum.

I will also be adding timing rules to each game category so future runners know about the timing.

Generally historically the rules are fairly standard when comes to speedrunning most games including the C&C ones. To be honest you as the runner and other runners when they come make the rules but unless there is something unqiue or special that you think needs to be indicated otherwise the main thing that is clarified from game to game is where the timing starts and stops or if it is IGT or RTA.

If you want to indicate where you started and ended your timing then we can use that as the standard for this game which typically has been from campaign selection till the 'Victory/Mission Acomplished' dialogue appears.

It also seems as if you are now a series admin so you can make changes if you feel you need to, otherwise standard speedrunning rules apply; no modding or hacking of the game, single segment, recorded etc.