Edit: Done as of October 1st 2022
The current rules require the game settings to follow the original Arcade, that is the HP and some others like Ring Size need to be set to a specific value. Unfortunately this made the whole board a pain to manage as literally half of the players didn't submit valid runs or configured wrong settings..
Long story short, the current rule set for non-Arcade games is apparently too complicated, so my plan/proposal is to simplify them to the following:
- only difficulty can be adjusted, rest of settings stays at default values
- runs with any other custom settings like HP or Ring Size etc. goes to the Any% category
If no objections or other suggestions occur within two weeks I will proceed with the said adjustments. The currently verified runs will be moved into fitting categories.
I thought about possible routes to complete the "Big Game Mode" as fast as possible and came up with these two ways.
Pick Cydney as character, since she has the women speed bonus on some bikes and the most starting cash ($1000). Note you always get additionaly half the value of your current bike when you buy a new one.
First, win 3 races (+ $3000) so you will have a total of ($5748) available and buy the "Rat" (- $5489 = $259). Then..
Route A
- Win next 7 races (rest of lv1 and all lv2 races = +$12000) and buy the "Vampiro" ($15003 - $13796 = $1207)
- Win next 8 races (lv3 and three lv4 races = +$27000) and buy the "Assassino" ($35105 - $34888 = $217)
- Win next 5 races (rest lv4 and three lv5 = +$23000) and buy "Vipera" ($40661 - $40000 = $661) and finish final 2 races
Route B
- Win next 9 races (lv1, lv2 and two lv3 races = +$18000) and buy the "Raven" ($21003 - $18999 = $2004)
- Win next 8 races (lv3 + all lv4 = +$29000) and buy the "Vipera" ($40503 - $40000 = $503) and finish lv5
Its not particularly easy to win a lv3 race with the "Rat" or a lv4 race with a "Vampiro" so one could buy a worse bike than listed as safety strat, but it should equal a significant time loss. Time estimates for both routes were about even in my calculations.
1.) I made a small "research" and found all the platforms where this game was published for: Saturn, PC, PS, SegaCD and 3DO with the 3D0 being the first published in 1994.
2.) All of them appear to have the same modes, but I seperated each platform as subcategory because they might have some differences like loading times or bikes.
3.) For the moment I left two categories (Level 1 and Career mode). Other Levels might be added later if someone wants. Also limited the Level 1 category to Thrash Mode only, because of the reasons stated in the questions topic.
4.) Added IL board for best track times in Level 5 for each platform, it goes by ingame time.
Does everybody of the runners agree with these changes or are there other suggestions?
Is Level 1 (and possibly other levels) limited to start from career or menu? The menu only gives you a certain bike while in career you have the possibility to buy another. Also if you chose a woman character (only career mode) it gives you slight speed advantage on some bikes.
Wouldn´t it make more sense to limit individual level runs to start from menu only and have the career mode be a seperate category itself because of the things above? (I´m talking about PC version I forgot to add, don´t know about others)
Just so other potential runners don´t miss it, recently (as of the 1st October 2018) the new timing method was introduced for the any%, any% no EE-glitch and Wang Cars category. This one is based on the ingame frame count and is more consistent than the frame rate limiter of the game, because the actual frame rate fluctuates with the game frame limiter enabled (usually between 30 - 30.3 fps) probably due to lag that can occur on different PCs because of various reasons. And this is a problem since in the any% categories it is more or less a matter of frames where you need precise timing. You can activate the counter using the powerpatch which you can get from the Resource section and ticking "Show Cycle" in the debug menu.
Real time is still used for the other categories however because it is a pain in the butt to calculate all the menu times or pauses manually in full runs or such where people might want to save and reload frequently. You still need to have the frame count displayed though because it can help detecting potential tempering with the framerate or replay system that is in the game.
It was brought up on discord, so i write it up here again. Recently the runner Sektor reminded us, that there is an inbuilt framecounter in the game if you check "Show Cycle" under the debug options, which you can enable in your gta2 manager using this: http://gtamp.com/GTA2/powerpatch.zip
Having some runs with this enabled we noticed a difference in real time compared to actual framecount of the game. The runner hipp0cat did some tests in residential to verify that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zt0fSMN6kMkEbDtFcIEvss0hfo548YxdI7WZ9MJ90O4/edit?usp=sharing
Frame = ingame framecount, Time = real time, Exp. Time = expected time if one frame would equal 0.03333.. secs (30fps).
As can be seen the actual fps are inconsistent (are between 30.1 to 3.3 fps most of the time) and can give you an advantage of up to 0.3 secs in even a short run like residential any%.. I also did a quick test with disabled frame limiter and instead using dxtory to limit to exact 30fps. The result was that the ingame framecount was consistent with the fixed fps.
So to avoid having these varying fps having an impact on the actual run performance, I would like to suggest the following:
1.) All (individual level?) runs should have the ingame framecount enabled from now on
2.) The ingame time will be calculated by dividing the framecount with 30 (exact 30 fps for simplicity). Example: 1326 frames / 30 = 44.200 secs ingame time
3.) Because some full-game runs also go into menu and there is no counter available i think these options would be possible:
- A: ignore it and give penalties if someones is deliberately too long there or game crashes
- B: just time all the time spent in the menu
- C: use Real Time anyway ignoring the possible disadvantages
Since I don´t think it would make sense to make such decisions on my own, it would be appreciated to hear the opinions or proposals of other gta2 speedrun community members about this issue.
Modified version for gta2:
First of all old school gtas like gta1 or gta2 don´t have any percent counters, unlike the 3d era and later games. It is more an "All Goals" instead of "100%". In some later gta games like SA or V however there are percentage counters, but not every side goal (like completing "beat the cock" missions) counts towards the actual percentage. In old school gtas it is a similiar case, because some goals are listed in the pause screen, while other possible side activities like delivering cars to cranes or getting all bonuses are not. So to avoid any confusion or other arbitrary stuff, only the goals listed in the pause screen should count towards "100%"!
The goals are:
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(Total/Gang) Missions Passed: Each unique mission needs to be completed. Bugs that have you get double mission completes for the same mission don´t mean that you can do one mission less.. and neither if the counter is broken and doesn´t add up the completed missions anymore. In the special rare case where you can get a "Job Failed!" and "Job Complete!" at nearly the same time which might break the mission counter somehow, the following is important: If it somehow screws the possibility of completing each unique mission not counting the mission where it happened, then your run is rip. ;)
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Kill Frenzies Completed: Each unique "Kill Frenzy" needs to be completed as the menu says. Unlike in the gta1 games the completion is a requirement for this goal to register.
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Tokens Collected: Each unique token which is depicted as a gta2 logo needs to be collected.
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Target Score: You need to at least reach the appointed score, which unlocks a blinking pink marker that points to the level exit. Since it is a level based game (where you are supposed to unlock next levels by having target score and then finishing the level), going to the pink marker and leaving town is an additional requirement, which marks the level as completed.
See this topic: https://www.speedrun.com/gta1/thread/a051t for a detailed explanation.
See this topic: https://www.speedrun.com/gta1/thread/a051t for a detailed explanation.
Since some questions arose, a clarification about what counts towards "100%" and also what counts as a major exploit for the recently added "Any% NME (no major exploits)" category.
1.) Clarification on 100% category: (last update: 26.08.2018) First of all old school gtas like gta1 or gta2 don´t have any percent counters, unlike the 3d era and later games. It is more an "All Goals" instead of "100%". In some later gta games like SA or V however there are percentage counters, but not every side goal (like completing "beat the cock" missions) counts towards the actual percentage. In old school gtas it is a similiar case, because some goals are listed in the pause screen, while other possible side activities like delivering cars to cranes or getting all bonuses are not. So to avoid any confusion or other arbitrary stuff, only the goals listed in the pause screen should count towards "100%"!
These goals are:
-
Missions Passed: Each unique mission needs to be completed. Bugs that have you get double mission completes for the same mission don´t mean that you can do one mission less.. and neither if the counter is broken and doesn´t add up the completed missions anymore. Same thing also accounts for the next goal.
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Secrets Found: Each unique "Kill Frenzy" needs to be found as the menu says, completion is optional. So collecting them is enough, which makes the game register this goal (once, if no bugs happen). Whether you complete it or not doesn´t matter in this game!
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Target Score: You need to at least reach the appointed score, which unlocks a red marker that points to the level exit. Since it is a level based game (where you are supposed to unlock next levels by having target score and then finishing the level), going to the red marker and leaving town is an additional requirement, which marks the level as completed.
2.) Clarification on Any% NME category: (last update: 21.05.2020) There are four known major exploits in this game and most of these were used in the regular Any% category which led to the creation of this category (to avoid all that crap and make it a more appealing game for speedrunning). So the category forbids the (ab)use of the following glitches/game mechanics:
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unlimited combo multiplicator: When exploding/killing multiple cars or peds in a combo, the score multiplies by 2 with each kill. However there is no programmed limit to the combo multiplier, so you can get extremely high scores with many cars/peds. Note: you normally won´t get any huge combo multipliers unless you deliberately go for it (stacking cars or blowing up a group of people in a mission for example). So any deliberate use of it will result in an invalid run. Even an accidental occurence which so far was never observed will be assessed by the mods and probably result in an invalid run too. ;)
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infinite score glitch: Blow up a cop car with cop inside, push the car on edge of a slope so that it partly is in air and shoot a rocket to the wall where the cop car is from below.
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early level exit: In "Tequila Slammer" level you can exit the level without reaching the target score and any red marker appearing. Apparently no programmed checks whether requirements were met exist.
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grilling cops: Kiling a cop with a flamethrower gives $10,000 base reward. With high score multiplier and even low combo multiplier it boosts score to a huge amount very quickly and is hence considered a major exploit.
In this topic different versions and their differences are discussed.
#Arcade In general all revisions have following default values:
- energy max: 180
- difficulty: Normal
- match count: 2
- ranking mode: on (not sure if it makes any difference)
The differences are in the minimum settings: Rev. a
- energy max: 100
- difficulty: Easy
- match count: 1
Rev. c, d and tb
- energy max: 160
- difficulty: Easy
- match count: 2
Rev. tb
- additional team battle mode (2-5 fighters, default: 3)
- energy max: 180 (default: 200)
- extra option "health recovery", either variable or full (describes how much the health bar refilles after beating an opponent)
#Dreamcast Only US version tested so far (differences to arcade version marked in bold):
- energy max: 160 (normal mode and team battle, default: 200)
- difficulty: easy (normal, hard, hardest)
- match count: 2-5 (default: 3)
- time limit: 30 (15, 60, no limit)
- team battle: 2-5 players
- health recovery (team battle): same as arcade, but has an extra option "none" (not useful)
This topic discusses the differences between different platform versions (not looking at the obvious gameplay differences). This should also help clarify some (potential) differences in rules used for each category.
PC
- contains 17 levels with 10 treasures per level
- the "Peru" level unlocks automatically after "Aetherium" if you don´t buy the secret map for 2500$
- the ending credits roll either after "Peru" if you didn´t buy the secret map or after "Aetherium" if you did and completed "Peru" before that
- IQ system is irrelevant since it doesn´t affect anything
N64
- contains 17 levels with 10 tresures per level
- the "Peru" level unlocks when reaching at least 1500 IQ points after "Aetherium"
- IQ System: Each treasure gives 10 points with exception of the last level where you get 40 points per treasure. A maximum of 2000 IQ points is possible (160x10=1600 + 10x40=400).
GBC
- contains 15 levels with 10 treasures in most of the levels. "Teotihuacan" has 11 treasures and "Tian Shan River" and "Aetherium" don´t have any.
- has an extra level after "Babylon" called "Russian Border"
- the levels "Palawan Temple", "Jeep Trek" and "King Sol's Mines" don´t exist
- the "Peru" level unlocks when reaching at least 1900 IQ points after "Aetherium"
- IQ System: You get 50 points for level completion with a 50 point bonus if you find all treasures in the level. Each treasure gives additionally 5 points and trading health packs at the trade station gives 25 points each. In total you can earn the required 1900 points for the bonus stage by collecting all treasures in all levels where they are available or selling health packs if needed.
So this being said I can see the following differences for the categories:
- "Full-game Any%(Glitchless)" on PC ends after 17 levels while on the N64 and GBC after 16 levels.
- "All Treasures" category does not exist for the GBC ILs "Tian Shan River" and "Aetherium". "Full-game All Treasures" should still include all levels regardless of the game version.
Not sure who gave me the mod rights for this game, but I used them to update the rules because of the problems discussed in the "game/speedrunning related questions" topic.
This game has problems with inconsistent fps which results in different game speeds. The user Dick_Assman made different comparison videos of different versions (GoG, Steam, Retail and Legacy), which demonstrated that every version besides the Retail version (basically) runs on 20 fps. The GoG and Legacy versions might require the steam app to run in the background to get the right fps in case it doesn´t have consistent 20 fps for some reason.
So for now the game should run at 20 fps in order to have comparable speedruns for a fair competition. Open questions are:
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Should widescreen be allowed which is availabe (only?) on the Steam version? It gives some advantages since you don´t need to scroll as much.
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Should there be a seperate category for the Retail version with maybe a max 30 fps? Some retail runs on youtube by the user Soda88 did run on this speed and it looked consistent. Maybe it is even possible to limit the fps consistently with another program, so that it shouldn´t be a problem to run it at 20 fps?
In the game you have the option to skip levels 1-3 by pressing Shift+L (not a cheat code) with the effect of having only 15 minutes left instead of 60 and starting at level 4. So I wonder why don´t you skip the first 3 levels in the any% run?
In glitchless it might not be possible (just guessing) to finish in 15 minutes, but with normal any% it should as the current WR is sub 15 and you save three or so minutes by skipping those levels. As I am not good enough at this game I never tried it, so I don´t know if you can actually pass all the remaining levels, so in case it is impossible my apologies.
Post your ideas for the bingo here, what we have so far from the marathon topic:
Useful links Location of frenzies, tokens, wang cars etc.:
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- http://en.wikigta.org/wiki/Badges_Downtown_District_(GTA2) * Bonuses and carcrusher rewards in detail:
Possible bingo goals
- get all tokens
- complete all frenzies (or maybe some specific like tank frenzies)
- complete all x gang missions
- get the x bonus (x is one of the 11 possible bonuses)
- collect all wang cars (only residential)
- crush certain cars (either for a certain power-up/weapon or maybe rare cars like A-Type in downtown)
- get a Benson in industrial or downtown (in some missions where the enemy is set to chase you down, the standard car they are spawned with is the brown Benson after you shake them the first time. Note there are no parked Bensons or in traffic in those districts.)
- get x amount of points
- get a unique vehicle (bullet/rocket proof garbage truck in Industrial, black meteor/miara in some final missions ))
- complete some hard missions the intended way (for example "Penal Ties" in residential)
- complete a mission in a "fun" way (like chosing the panto for the race in "We love you granpa" in residential)
- get maximum respect for each gang
- earn x $ with the taxi
- roundtrip on the train
- unlock the dementia limousine (completing "dimentia to go" in downtown)
- do ee glitch, whereever, just make it happen
- get all multipliers on map
- complete Downtown with standart multiplier on Tank
- get 420 score points for one action
- get flyglitch
- complete "Armored Car Clash" in downtown with 1 explosion (damn that sounds fun)
- complete any% BUT exit each district with double amount of money needed (2,6,10 instead of 1,3,5) or split this, I don't know/care
- get out of bounds and survive
- hit the world roof (wind made that happen I guess)
- complete "The Final Job!" in any district (sounds horrible, but bingos shouldn't be short, so if lines kinda help with it, it might be alright)
- survive x minutes with 6 wanted level
- do extra missions (can't tell what challanges you can add to those)
- go from 0 to 6 wanted level with ONE "electrofinges" power-up
- do OLD industrial route
This is just a topic for those who don´t know how to make the game work on Win (XP / Vista / 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10) 64-bit systems.
Installer: http://www.replaying.de/indiana-jones-5/indiana-jones-5-patch-windows-xp-vista-7-x64/
Old graphics card Wrapper (dgVoodoo 2) for modern Win (Vista / 7 / 8 / 10): http://dege.freeweb.hu/
A useful topic: http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?s=786c12e2d880a78f768afa13ab643fa2&t=21596
- What is the normal speed that the game is supposed to run at?
If you watch some old videos on youtube like here:
Compared to a run I did last year (I have the GOG version):
- Can we be sure that the game runs at the same speed on all computers and that it is not hardware related?
Glitchless category:
- Glitches defined in points 1.) and 2.) are NOT allowed
No Glitches/Major Skips category:
- Glitches and skips that are listed from points 1.) to 3.) are NOT allowed!
- Minor skips or broken animations listed in 4.) can be used
- All important items listed in 5.) must be collected and used as they were intended to
1.) Major Glitches: Chalk glitch: Making a mark with the chalk out of a roll makes Indy invulnerable to fall damage and for some reason you can walk in areas that have death zones in them. Also makes Indy move during cutscenes on some occasions. Rolling glitch: Equip a weapon (grenades, satchels or whip not working) and press quickly shoot + hold roll-button + (forward or left or right) + any direction and Indy will morph in a weird jump which is in most cases longer than the high jump. You can also access some normaly unaccessible windows because of the morphing. Backroll glitch: When you roll backwards and the animation finishes, Indy loses all momentum. That basically resets the fall distance, so you end up basically tripling the distance you can fall without dying. Wall/Door Clipping: It is possible to clip through a lot of walls/doors by running/crawling against them or moving left right while doing so or even activating buttons from the other side of the wall. In nearly all cases it requires very high FPS (at least higher than 75). Forward-/Sideroll glitch: When rolling forward or to the side, holding back arrow with combination of side arrows after the jump makes Indy land safe on the ground. This doesn´t work in all levels though.
2.) Minor Glitches:
- Sometimes using Taklits part you don´t take damage even if the bar has reached the limit.
- Crawling onto a lift and standing up makes the game adjust your Z-Coordinate somehow and you move up instead of down. You can hit the end boss (Olmec Valley) twice with the same lift.
- Using items while rolling/jumping is not allowed. You can place the Marduk head (Infernal Machine) from the wrong side and skip fall damage while placing the mirror (Teotihuacan)
- Using shortcuts to access areas that were intended to be locked are not allowed (in Sols Mines you can get to the blue gem early while the invisible water barrier is still there before unlocking it with a cutscene or you can jump on a broken pillar to get to the green gem room, causing rendering glitches because you are normally supposed to dive under water and access that room from below)
3.) Puzzle/Item skips: Palawan Volcano:
- Skipping pulley by running on steel rope Palawan Temple:
- Tricking Lava Boss to skip Taklits part. Jeep Trek:
- Not getting the missing plank for the second damaged bridge. Pudovkin:
- Skipping all/any machine part and the equipment.
- Jumping onto the crane hook instead of picking up the crate with the crystal for Azerims part and use it. King Solomons Mines:
- You can skip getting the oil can by jumping to the edge of the broken railbridge and you can skip getting the red gem, because you can somehow finish the level without using it. Return to Peru:
- Activating the falling boulder cutscene by jumping out into safety after standing in the hole where the stone fell out before, skipping whipping the statue later and getting the spear.
4.) Allowed shortcuts/skips General:
- Rolling into a climbing animation
- Using items while running Canyonlands:
- Jumping to the ledge on the other side instead of the intended shimmy to the left then jumping to the other side. Babylon:
- In the library making a few backsteps and jump up instead of pushing the block and then going up from this block. Tian Shan River:
- Crawl at the side of the railing and get into raft in the machinery room Shambala Sanctuary:
- Jump straight to the balkony where the plant is after you get the key, instead across all the platforms. Palawan Lagoon:
- Jumping backwards out of the window on the ship instead of going out through the door. Palawan Volcano:
- You can move while the "picking up the key animation" is still going in Palawan Volcano. Palawan Temple:
- Ignoring the boulder, by running against the wall next to it and jumping on ropes, stones, palm trees, skipping ladders...
- Jumping into the double boulder room, skipping a cutscene Jeep Trek:
- Ignoring the first damaged bridge by hitting the right edge with full speed before you take off.
- Bumping into stones/walls to elevate the Jeep. Meroe:
- Skip long shimmy section with the same trick as in Babylon described above instead of pulling out the block and pressing the button on the other side.
There are also more tiny glitches like some temporary broken animations, but they don´t give any advantage and can´t be really completely avoided through out a run.
5.) List of important items (cs) = you get item in a cutscene 1: potsherd(cs), sophias gear(cs) -- 2 2: key-explosives room(cs), 3 tabloids, marduk statue -- 5 3: raft, 4 candles -- 5 4: key-treasury(cs), monastic seal, key-plant door, plant, urgon part -- 5 5: machete, shovel, arming device, hammer, key-cabine, crank, propeller -- 7 6: key-lava room, key-sophia, pulley -- 3 7: shark key, 2 tiki statues, monkey key, taklit part -- 5 8: wooden plank -- 1 9: water key, 3 idols, mirror -- 5 10: azerim part -- 1 11: taklit part, equipment, urgon part, azerim part, crank wheel -- 5 12: chain, bucket, firewood, wheel, watch, crystal eye(cs), gasoline -- 7 13: fuse, key-gem room, key-locker, oil can, 3 gems -- 7 14: arm, bronce key, bronce gear(cs), nub part, nubs eye -- 5 15: nub part, azerim part, urgon part, taklit part, horse head -- 5 16: tool from beyond, mirror, medallion, 3 gems -- 6 17: raft, key-spear room, spear, idol -- 4
- Total: 78 items
There is an area north of the yellow zaibatsu phones where you can gather some peds and do this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpspcrshk9hg6pv/EEstrats.avi?dl=0
So far machine gun, silenced machine gun, electro gun and flamethrower worked for me.
Benefits:
- faster than bus EE
- using (silenced) machine guns you can get one or two extra accuracy bonuses (5k$ base points). if you get only one, you can try to shoot at some people on the way back because you might be close to getting the second bonus
Problems:
- sometimes you lose the combo (like the first try in the video), but maybe positioning was bad
- with a wanted level of 4 the ped spawns get somewhat low so you most likely can´t gather enough peds and need to respray first (maximum so far i got 3 times in a row before needing to respray)
As for the route, its not much different than the old one here:
Suggestion: Leave out the yellow Krishna mission and instead of shooting russians, shoot some krishnas in the vedic temple after you are done with missions to get the respect to at least +2 or +3. Thats because the spot is in zaibatsu territory and you might kill some performing the EE. You also need to somehow gather enough machine gun ammo, so pick up the ammo at the hospital when you do the yellow russian missions and probably in the vedic temple area at the right of the ramp after you kill krishnas and are on the way to do the EEs. One mission less is one multiplier less (and less score), so you will optimaly need 8 EEs here with the accuracy bonuses providing the rest. With this route it probably should take around 15 minutes with good execution.
Maybe there are other spots where this is possible and maybe even in downtown(police stations usually have a lot of peds spawns)? So feel free to post here if you find anything or have some better route ideas. ;)
Here are three possible routes I came up with (Route C is the "old" one). All of them have three loops, the starting one and the other two after save/reloads:
First loop [IMG]https://www.dropbox.com/s/1p7rugs7fb2mm45/route1sf.jpg?raw=1[/IMG] Second loop [IMG]https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tocmnparsuh32g/route2sf.jpg?raw=1[/IMG] Third loop [IMG]https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3c9zf79mvh8l3c/route3sf.jpg?raw=1[/IMG]
Some notes:
- At the start you may take the Furore GT at the parking lots right next to the train tracks, but it is a bit slower than waiting for the Z-Type
- Use the handbrake on stairs that pushes you back, like the one on the first multiplier
- Try to get a wanted level so cop cars spawn at the wang car garage/save point quickly
- You can use a stair jump (don´t forget handbrake) on the edge of the stairs where the crates are as a shortcut to the wang car
- Route A needs extra 2k$ to get 50k$ for the save in the first part, but you should be able to get it on the way without losing time by driving over/shooting peds/cops
- For route B/C: if you see an Elvis group on the way, try to run them over to get the bonus, so you can skip the tank part in the last loop (saves 5 secs)
- Route C can use an alternate route in the last part (the one Route B uses) which is about the same as the first one
Short summary on what to do in each route: Route A
- 2x Multipliers, 3 Wang Cars + get 2k$ points to reach 50k$
- 2x Multipliers, 2 Wang Cars
- 2x Multipliers, 3 Wang Cars Route B and C
- 3x Multipliers, 3 Wang Cars
- 2x Multipliers, 3 Wang Cars
- 2 Wang Cars + destroy one car with tank at the end
Route C video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aj23wtv1wtl0793/gta2_rd_4_52_noEE.avi?dl=0