Hello, I'm looking at getting back into running this game and I wanted to reach out to clarify the rules about the use of GameShark. When I was running previously, runs were not rejected if a GameShark has been used on the file. While I absolutely agree that GameShark codes should not be allowed DURING a run, I wanted to express my concerns about how fully banning GameShark creates an environment that is prohibitive to newer runners picking up this game.

During my Gimli run, I used a GameShark to add items items into my save file to avoid spending potentially hundreds of hours grinding to get the game to a state where you can actually perform an optimized run. I used hex values found here. When I was experimenting with setting up a proper game file I discovered that giving an item an illegal affix (for example, trying to put a weapon prefix on a body armor) will crash the game when the item is equipped. This means that even with using a GameShark or similar device, adding "impossible" items into the game will result in a bricked save, or a crashed game. The other codes I used were to level my character to cap. I turned all game shark codes off during the run itself.

Previously what I described was allowable. Is the intention of banning the GameShark to prohibit this behavior as well, or are there additional rules that clarify when using such a device is allowable?

I'm happy to comply with whichever rules the mods set forth for runs, but I wanted to get clarification, and also offer my own insights as a runner to the existing rule set and see if this was an issue worth revisiting. I am very much looking forward to seeing how low we can take this time!

Hey!

Thanks for making this post as these are some excellent questions. While we are discussing and reviewing the use of GameShark itself, I did want to share a few thoughts on the issue of playing this game via GameBoy/regular emulation vs optimizing characters via tools such as GameShark or other similar programs.

As someone who has been playing this game on GameBoy for about 20 years now, I know just how discouraging the grind can be. It has taken me about a year to get all six playable characters to level 52, and even then they are still not fully optimized. I have found that, on average, I max out about 3/5 of my attributes to 150 upon reaching level 52 while the other two are extremely low (about 75 each). The only way to max out attributes is to either kill 500 enemies (which gives you two) or to purchase attributes at shrines, which cost in the range of 10-15k gems at that point (so basically an entire night of grinding just to get a single attribute point). Even then, you still can't guarantee that your players are fully optimized as it is completely random when (or if) you will get good speed items - for example, I have been grinding Legolas for months now and still have not seen a bow with the prefix "River's" or "Snowbird's," meaning I am stuck at 5% speed from my bow instead of 10% (which is enough of a difference to shave a few seconds off of a WR). I know it is theoretically possible to find this, yet the game has decided not to be merciful in this regard and I have no idea if or when it ever will be. The end result of this is that I feel that I have spent over a year simply grinding just to be able to submit runs, and that this has prevented me from being able to focus on things that are actually important for speedruns such as routing, practicing muscle memory, or even having time to record runs to where I could get good RNG and a subsequent low time.

While I understand reservations towards using GameShark itself and would say that, if it is allowed, we would need some safeguards set in place to ensure the integrity of runs, my personal opinion is that character optimization of some sort should be allowed for new game + and bonus map runs. I feel that requiring such an inimical grind ends up gatekeeping new players or players like myself with major time restrictions from either starting the game or being able to play it. Further, the enormous requirements of the game don't even guarantee that you will be able to optimize runs as the odds of finding optimized speed items are stacked against you - imagine if a Super Mario World runner had to spend hundreds of hours grinding just to hope to get a cape so they could speedrun the game, yet this is what we have to do to hope to even begin to be able to run this game. Finally, I feel like the grind takes away from focusing on actually practicing and running the game itself, which is not consistent with the spirit of speedrunning.

Thanks again for this post as well as the excellent questions it asks and points it brings up! As I said earlier, we will hopefully have an answer soon regarding GameShark files themselves. In the meantime, I did want to share my opinion as well, as someone who has gone through the grind, that optimization of some sort should be allowed, so that we can focus on the more important aspects of running the game instead of an arguably unfair and inimical grind.

~Nick

Hello! I just wanted to follow up on this. I have been testing the game on my GameBoy and noticed that I can unequip several items and still get the same/comparable times on some of my bonus map runs. This leads me to believe there is a speed cap in the game, somewhere around the 50% mark. If this is the case, it should mean that the game can only be optimized so far, which makes the issue of GameShark use a little less worrisome. As such, here are my thoughts on the issue:

1. In my opinion, it does not matter how one gets to level 52, 150 attributes, or how they come by the items they are using. For example, someone can ask a GameBoy user to prove they didn't purchase their copy of the game already maxed out and there'd be no way they could prove they didn't unless they documented themselves leveling up all along. As long as no items/abilities are used that cannot be found in-game and no codes or cheats are run during the game itself that would improve RNG or other capped stats, I cannot see how it's relevant how one gets their character fully optimized prior to the run.

2. I do want to be respectful of Speedrun.com as a whole, and it does seem the majority of communities are in agreement that GameShark should not be used. As such, I don't think we can officially endorse GameShark and recommend runners use it. I also want to be respectful of the community, and it seems like the use of emulators like GameShark, at least with some caveats put in place, will open up access to the game to where new players can start running it, as well as players with time restrictions who cannot put months or years into the grind just to be able to start doing runs. As such, I propose we remove the ban on GameShark as a whole and instead make a rule in the New Game + category that no GameShark codes or cheats can be used during the run itself, and that any items used must be able to be found in-game and must match their abilities to the prefixes/suffixes they're associated with.

3. I do think it's fair to state that if runners submit a run that is suspicious or that cannot be matched once the speed cap is controlled for (ex. Perfect RNG, all one-shot kills including bosses, consistently running faster than should be possible with the speed cap), the run will be met with more scrutiny and the runner may be required to provide additional proof and verification of how they got the time that they did. In this situation, GameShark will always be met with more scrutiny due to its ability to use cheat codes than other systems such as running on Console or other emulators that cannot use cheat codes. This caveat is not directed towards any current community members, but I do feel it is important to state as, if we do get new community members submitting runs due to the new category rules, I want to make sure they are aware of the risks associated with GameShark runs as well as the benefits.

Hopefully this clarification helps! If any community members have any thoughts/concerns regarding this proposition please let me know and we can discuss it further. Please also feel free to reply and let me know if you agree with this approach. I will give the community about a week to respond and, as long as no one has any concerns regarding this, I will commit to next weekend (4/15/24 at the very latest) to have the new category rules created so that community members can start running the game again. Thanks everyone!

~Nick

Hey everyone! Since I have not received any concerns or comments on this issue, I will go ahead and get started on updating this category to add the revised rules I listed in my last post. I will try to get this done as quickly as possible, though we did just end up closing on our house so life got a bit busier than expected this past week. I will get them updated as soon as possible, and look forward to all the new runs that will hopefully be submitted under the new rules!

Good morning everyone! As of today, the rules have been updated for NG+ Any% and Bonus Map categories to allow for GameShark files to get your character to level 52, 150 attributes, and to find speed items prior to starting your run. As discussed previously, please be fair and don't take advantage of these rules as this would ruin the fun for everyone else and lead to runs requiring additional proof/being rejected if evidence of cheating is discovered. Otherwise, happy speed running and I look forward to seeing any new runs that are submitted under the new category rules!