If anyone is still watching this game, I was just made aware of something which will make runs less annoying. You know that bunny hop where you let go of the directional buttons and Batman jumps forward pulling the camera along with him?
A YouTube commenter named Rabinoperra clued me onto something and I did testing to make sure it works. If you punch before you land a jump, you have the entire length of the punch animation to push the jump button and still get that momentum carried over. This turns a one frame trick into about a 10 frame trick.
Also, if anyone does happen to start running this game again because of this, please let me know. I'd like to be able to watch the attempts.
Okay, I'll release the entire LOTAD video when I finish it, but I believe that I should share a couple of possible decent time savers.
Be sure to read video descriptions as well.
I think I'm going to start working on a LOTAD for the SNES version. I'm kind of curious as to what the limit is. I was debating whether to make it Human Theory, but watching speedruns has shown me I'm a really bad judge of what humans are capable of, so I think I'm going to go for every stupid risky strat I can think of.
As long as I remember not to be too picky, I think I can have it done in 2-3 weeks. Let it be known that guessing how long a project will take is usually an exercise in futility, though.
Also, if anyone's interested, I have a new run (for a different game) currently in the submission queue at tasvideos.
Ox, if you're around I'm wondering if you might be able to help.
After seeing the schedule I have asked for days off during the time that Aero 2 is scheduled to be shown. I'll let you know later what their response is. The problem is registration for the event is already full. I was wondering if you might be able to contact staff and request that I be allowed to come. My plan is to just show up for the run and whatever time is needed to set up and prepare for that time, so I'm not going to be taking up space for very long at all.
In the meantime, I'm going to be periodically checking the registration page to see if spots open up, but if anything, it looks like the event's just getting more full.
Also, if we can PM somehow, I would like to provide you with contact information so we can coordinate better.
Have to get back to you on that. Depends on what work will let me do. What's the deadline for couch commentators again?
Just saw the list of games for the upcoming marathon. Looks like Aero 2 is on there. Congrats.
This might be something else to try. Can you fall out of the ceiling on the top left of Dis 1 after zipping up?
on a more serious note, do you still want me to play around in PD2, thu_ox?
That's what motivated me to start working on it.
Good news, I managed to get the glitch from console power on, which means it's useable!
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49335669955025293
Movie, if you want to try playing it.
The set up is very easy, but also very annoying. Here's what you do.
After you reset the console, let the demos play. Press start in the middle of the Dis 2 demo. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter where as long as Aero is on screen during the Dis 2 demo. After that, start your game. The glitch will trigger when you enter Boardin' Zone.
I realize this might make the game much more annoying to run now because every time you reset, you're going to have to wait for the right demo again. This also means the thu_ox managed to find a glitch that saves a ton of time in RTA but is not worth it for TAS. Congratulations.
Okay, I'm going to take a break right now because I'm reaching the end of my creativity. I haven't yet gotten it to the point where it's useable, but I think I have enough to give you guys something to work with.
That is a state state on Bizhawk with the glitch active.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49325845479230878
That is a moviefile of me dicking around until I got the glitch. Here's what I found.
You will get the glitch to happen if you enter Boardin' Zone 1 from that state. Doesn't matter how long you wait.
The glitch will remain active even if you enter another level first before going to Boardin' Zone 1.
Also, I played through Bell Castle Act 3 from that state and the glitch still happened in Boardin' Zone 1.
I played Disco Fever Act 3 so I could die in the first pit there, and after I died, I loaded Boardin' Zone 1. Glitch still happened.
When I reset the game, the glitch was gone. Also if I used Disco Fever 3 to game over then played through or used level select to choose Boardin' Zone 1, the glitch was gone.
So, like I said, haven't gotten it useable yet, but have gotten it to trigger, and hopefully given you guys something to test.
I'm looking into the Boardin' Zone glitch as well. So far haven't been able to replicate it. I'm hoping this is not the case, be x subpixels do carry over from level to level and don't reset. The reason I'm hoping it's not the case is because that would be incredibly random and unreliable in real time, but as I said, still haven't replicated it yet, so I'm guessing it's pretty rare.
Wait, as I was about to post this, I got the glitch on emulator. Okay, now I can test this. I also used the level select code to get it, but I was recording input at the time. I'll let you know what happens.
As long as we're documenting zips, probably not worth it, but walking across the ceiling in PD 3 by zipping up the left wall is possible. You have to zip up twice in order to do it though, so annoying. Found that with PD walls, the second that you sink in, you can then jump and drill (the diagonal one) to perform a zip in either direction. These seem to be the only walls in the game where that happens, though.
FR 2 and 3 at least are definitely worth it. Also I think the DI 2 should be worth as well if you can get it consistent even if you do have to fight the boss, since the entire level is skipped. DI 3 may be a little more of a toss up, but I think it's worth trying. (By the way, at least in Genesis, for the DI 3 zip at the beginning of the level, you can walk out of the wall.)
For FR 3 I definitely suggest using the spot that Garbi settled on for her attempt. The times are only slightly different in a TAS setting, and you don't run the risk of getting permanently stuck in the ceiling.
I would agree that BC 2 and DF 3 are probably a wash for whether it'd save any time in a real time run, but like I said, the timing's a little weird, but once you get it down, it's very consistent. I would say it's worth trying and playing around with.
As for Boardin' Zone, it looks like if you jump off the first hill on the first two levels, Aero can go a bit faster than the screen on SNES. I think it would be worth it to jump off the first hill in all Boardin' Zone levels, even if it means slowing down a bit before the jump. Probably the reason that the glitch thu_ox mentioned worked in the first two levels, but not 3 is because the slope of the initial hill in the first two levels is steeper. This is still all speculation at this point, though.
Another thing to try in FR 3, after the avalanche section on the right wall, there's a place that you can zip down (it's a fast setup zip) to a bonus area with a cannon, then blast up and travel backward through the bonus area to the end of the level. When we tested in TAS, it was very close in time to the route we settled on. In real time, it might be faster, escpecially if you do the zip in the bonus area that we do.
By the way, I saw that world record you posted earlier this morning. I decided to look at your twitch channel on a whim. I wasn't aware you had found those zips independant of us and seriously, congrats getting BC 3 zip first try. That was amazing.
Also, how long does it usually take for runs to get verified on this site?
I managed to make the zip happen in real time on emulator for SNES. It looks like you basically have to press the buttons near simultaneously, but there is some leeway. The most important thing is getting the timing down. If Aero stays on the ground too long between jumps, the wall will push him out. Once you get the timing down, though, it's pretty consistent.
If you would like to practice in Bizhawk, you can see Aero's X position in RAM position 000058 and subpixel is 00005A, Two byte values.
And here's the .bk2 from that session, if you want to see what my input looked like.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49206637833187916
I never encountered that Boardin' Zone glitch. I'll try to play around with it. No promises, though.
Probably. I'm pretty sure if it's possible on the Genesis and you were able to TAS it on the SNES, then it's possible on the SNES as well. Not exactly sure the timing that Garbi uses. In the TAS we pushed right and down drill on the same frame. My guess is you want to push right (or left) really close after you do down drill, it'll work. Doing it before is dangerous, maybe, but play around with it, let me know. It looks like the timing doesn't have to be frame perfect, though.
One thing I like more is a few of the quick zip set ups are possible in real time too. I was pretty sure that the one on Performer's Dungeon 3 would be, but Garbi surprised me by pulling off the one in Bell Castle 3. Also, even though the run soft locked doing the zip in Performer's Dungeon 2, I wonder if it still may be possible. It would require mashing, though.
As for glitchless, thu_ox's latest record does a lot of the things I was going to suggest. The biggest thing I have right now is maybe trying to clip through the slope in Fort Redstar 3 after the snowball machine. (That is if you define "glitchless" as just "no zips")
Hey, all. I recently completed a TAS of this game, as such I spent a lot of time digging into the mechanics of this game, and would like to help build the speed run to a better level.
If you would like me to help with anything concerning route planning or technique in either the fastest at any cost category or the possible new glitchless category please let me know. I have a few ideas if you're willing to listen. Haven't itemized them yet, but I'll go to the effort if there's interest.
