CanadaThank you nick! By the way I liked some of the stuff you did in your run and have been using them: the vortice skip from the double door, backing into the caves stairs and using the Sword to smack the chicken (slower than slap of course, but the slap is too inconsistent for me). Good stuff!
Maybe one last thing, "Any% with Glitches" should just be "Any%" (as mentioned by Turnipp and PlasticRainbow at the start of the thread). Also I'm still unsure when the run starts and ends? I've been using first visible frame as the game fades into the Attic, and first visible frame outside the mansion (so I lose all the loading time as you walk out the door, meaning my PB would be a 10:22 if I stopped as soon as touch the exit, but 10:23 if I stop when I'm outside). I'm not sure how the other runs were timed.
About a potential "No OoB" category, since Turnipp was talking about that in the first post. No reason to create that category yet, but in case someone wanted to do runs of that, I think there's a few questions to be asked first:
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Is Hover/Flying allowed? Probably allowed, since you're still in-bound.
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Are you allowed to clip through walls that don't cause an OoB? There's plenty of times when clipping through a wall instantly puts you into the next room, without having to go through the "OoB Shadow Realm". Should that be allowed, or is all clipping banned? I'm honestly not sure how to answer that. I'd have to see a route first to form an opinion I think. I guess jumping over the cellar crawlspace would fall into this "clip but not OoB" definition.
Quick thoughts after (finally) learning the optimal glitchless route:
I think the current rules are fine, but open to change. Yes, arrow skip is questionable-looking, but nothing really crazy is going on. The camera is following the arrow, and makes things look crazier than they really are. All you are doing is walking down the hallway, dodging the arrow at first, then tanking the arrow with available health/potion. Aggressive play for sure, but nothing out of the ordinary IMO. Just have to be careful to not have the ARROW pickup the BOOK for you. That is definitely a glitch, and should void the run.
Skipping damage-stuns by jumping and/or drinking a potion also is contentious, but IMO, abusing invulnerability frames is pretty standard gaming stuff and should be allowed.
About "Glitchless" category:
Glitchless categories always have to draw the line somewhere, and your average youtube comment will always find something to complain about. That's why "No Major Glitches" categories have gotten so popular, because there's less room for semantics. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing the category renamed to No Major Glitches personally. This would leave the door open for a more pure "Glitchless" category, if the demand was ever there. To me, major Glitches are: Any type of clip, out of bounds, hovering/flying (dropping an item in the middle of a jump). Phasing through an unloaded door/enemy (aka Mirror/Nightgaunt skip), I think should count as a clip/major glitch.
It is possible to trigger a "hover" at the beginning of the Cave Tunnels, and prevent the bridge from collapsing. This would allow the player, after defeating Pregzt, to exit from this path instead of the wine cellar, saving almost 20s. Even though it doesn't appear like you are flying, you are still in a hover state to prevent the bridge from collapsing. Basically, the act of dropping an item during a jump should be considered a major glitch, and ruled out.
TL:DR would be nice to have clearer rules
I'm trying to figure out what to do with Jack in the Dark. Right now, the original run by Neguuy seems to be on the original 11000 cycles that comes from the GOG.com version.
The other 2 runs by Mouton and Pazuzu are both on 24000 cycles. Mouton figured it was a good speed, and Pazuzu followed suit. This saves quite a bit of time of course. In any case, I learned the route earlier today and played on 24000, since it seemed like the consensus speed.
I was then contacted by Planet23k about a run they had, where they played on 55000 cycles. I'm now uncertain what to do in regards to this situation. Here's some options:
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Right now, I have it with a "Legacy" category, where the max speed is 24000, as it is the speed most of the competition was on. The other category is "Any%" where you can play at higher speeds (like 55000) if you want.
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You could also argue that 11000 is the speed that GOG.com ships the game at, and should be the "Legacy" category speed, instead of 24000. The 24000 runs, and anything beyond, could go in "Any%".
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You could also argue to only have 1 category, where anything goes in regards to CPU cycle speed, OR is capped at a certain value (either 11000 or 24000 or something else).
These are the options I can think of. Curious if anyone ever reads this and has thoughts or feedback. Also, I'm not certain how JitD ended up being here with Alone2, rather than with Alone1, but I guess it works.
Part 2 and 3 are up on the Guide section. I'll prob stop updating this thread so can check out the section periodically.
https://www.speedrun.com/stonekeep/guides/ncpk7
Up to Ice Caverns almost now. Of course I wanted the tutorial to be short and concise but impossible.
Thank you for showing interest, I honestly was not expecting anything. I've started with part 1, which was supposed to be very short but ended up being 30m
Been considering making a guide/tutorial for the game. Not that it's extremely complex, but hey more life into the game never hurts. Post here to show interest.
Wow I had never heard of this game, but it indeed looks like it plays just like a classic AITD game! 80000 is definitely very fast, about as fast as my CPU running on max speed. But it seems like it makes the gameplay very fluid and interesting for a speedrun (at least for Time Gate). A higher speed for Alone in the Dark would make getting extra camera changes less of a punishment (since the amount of frames switching to a different camera are lessened). But general movement and menuing is harder to execute. Curious what others have to say.
I had read that SDA thread in the past as well (found it from googling random queries about DOSBox speedruns) but I didn't know about the game so I wasn't that invested.
Good to see you around NHG. And cool to see a new mod and recent discussions about the rules!
While we're at it, how do we feel about DosBOX cycles? Obviously the majority of people would run this game on DosBOX. I believe the only time this has been brought up, Turnipp said to do whatever feels right. Obviously maxing out is faster. I think NHG was running on a set speed? Maybe around 25000? EDIT: he was running on GoG-standards aka 11000.
Most recent game I've ran in the series was Alone3. It was only a few days, so I didn't really think about the cycles. But I'm starting to dive back into Alone2, and realizing how big of a difference it can make.
I guess the options would be :
A) Set a specific speed that everyone must run at.
B) At runner's discretion (current situation). Max = Fast, but does not really feel bad at all IMO. It's not obscenely fast like a Dune 2000, where it looks like a different game almost. It's just very smooth transitions mostly.
C) Different categories. Basically a ''set speed'' category, and a ''free for all'' category. Obviously this option muddies up the leaderboards, but hey, it'll never look as bloated as a Resident Evil leaderboards I'm sure!
D R U N K G U I S E P B L E T S G O (well played on the cards Broodles)
Correct. It's no one else's but NHG's call to make. As I said, there are plenty high profile world records not on this site. AITD1 is small potatoes.
And yeah I agree about mostly everything you're saying about what needs to be done for Glitchless rulings. It's just logistically difficult to do anything when no one really runs the game. I barely remember any of the specifics myself because I played for like 2 days.
Well if the save is created from the same game that the run is being done on, then it's fine. I meant creating the save file before the timer begins would be considered NG+. But I guess there's an argument to be made about if save and reloads should be allowed in the first place (I do it in any% before Tower3 because, as you know, it's random if the ghosts are carrying Great Swords or not. People asked if it was allowed on stream).
Maybe there's a faster way to do all this however. Hard to tell just yet. I still haven't even had time to try it myself.
The cutscene sadly still happens, as you can see in the very new any% route made possible by kvkbones' glitch hunting frenzy.
It is pretty annoying that both areas with the lantern are packed with items... setting the glitch seems quite time consuming for the moment. And obviously using a pre-existing save that was created outside of the timer would fall into a new category entirely (new game+).
You would think the lantern would have a low item ID in thug's cave considering it's the second item into the cave -_- To quote Baccata... ''Bad luck!''
Grabbing him is about 10 seconds long. I use him because it simplified my money route (you get more crowns from the Manor if you grab the compass with Timothy, netting you an extra 100 even accounting for the extra travel fee).
Most of the glitchless routing hinges on how many fireball wands you want to buy, so money is important. I had 3 different routes where I bought 1, 2 and 3 wands. 2 wands just seemed like the perfect balance, but I'm sure the route can be improved much more.
It's certainly not mandatory, I just found it convenient for my money route. Happy to see someone else getting into the game!
Very interesting. Since the map and compass aren't obtainable from the ground or a niche, that leaves only the lantern and money. I wonder if there's some potential with pouches of money. Probably not but I'm curious now.
What's the sequence of event here? Make some illegal items, then go into Thug's cave, and then back to Gladstone for the save? And then keep playing the game?
Submitting someone's run without his consent is a big no-no. Everyone (all 3 people) that plays AITD knows about NHG and his threads on SDA as far as I know anyway. Contact him first or let him do it himself. I think having them in the forums right here is a pretty good placeholder (anyone interested in the game is likely to come check here).
But yes, ''Any% With Glitches'' is silly as all hell, and the rules for Glitchless would need to be defined properly. Though in my opinion, NHG already defined the rules for Glitchless by running and posting his 10:56. I think going by his definition makes the most sense, considering he IS the AITD speedrunning community.
EDIT: seems like he does not want his runs posted here, judging from his comments. I myself have plenty of runs that I don't have on this website. I've only recently started posting the more obscure ones because it helps infuse some life into inactive games.
I could also name a bunch of high-profile runs/WRs that are not posted on this website out of principle, and when external people try to submit them it does not end well. So please respect his choice. Not everyone supports how sr.com operates and/or the centralization of leaderboards.
Seems to be 48 to 50 enemies killed to trigger the end. Not sure why I've never counted the exact amount. Sometimes it's hard to count because of clusters so 50 seems like a safe bet.
