any% is called any% for a reason. like when the glitch to go through walls in ng2 was found, i was like "heck yeah," not like "hmm idk, this might save too much time!" most of the time, the amount of time save is not significant enough to really matter that much, but gives a breath of life into a run and makes it more interesting. in ng2, it probably saves like 3 seconds. even if this was like a 15+ time save overall, i'd still be for adding it in.

just as an example, mega man 5 had a refights skip that was found awhile back, and the community didn't even bat an eye in including it. cut off like 2 minutes from the run.

we need to stay true to category names. making a new category is overkill - look at something like super metroid or link to the past where any% no major glitches is the typically run category. if you use major glitches, you cut the run down by a factor of 10x-20x. this is cutting a currently estimated 5 seconds off of a run that's over 10 minutes. let people have fun.

I agree with everything said.

I saw Sanae stream a month or two ago, out of nowhere. I forget what was being played. I don't recall contacting her anywhere other than twitch. Maybe twitter? I don't remember.

My guess is that she won't dispute it because she's so inactive in the community. If she does, then we could return to the issue.

It seems fairly unanimous (whats your opinion cypherin?) How do we finalize this?

1 - 1 216 2 - 1 218 2 - 2 211 3 - 1 217 3 - 2 209 4 - 1 209 4 - 2 206 5 - 1 223 5 - 2 210 6 - 1 220 6 - 2 235 7 - 1 214 7 - 2 206 ... 7 - 5 244

have to double check 4-2, 5-2 and 7-2 but i think they're accurate

edit: if you want a challenge, the hardest ones in order I'd say are 1-1: 216 7-1: 214 3-2: 209 5-1: 223

edit: i'll leave these here, but you really should just go to figbird's google sheet since it's way more consolidated: http://www.speedrun.com/ng2nes/thread/ymigk

jimmypoopins beginner tutorial: (same video, just youtube vs twitch) or on twitch

jimmypoopins beginner tutorial (run only): (same video, just youtube vs twitch) or on twitch

Individual Stage Tutorials: http://www.twitch.tv/jimmypoopins (scroll down to profile) or https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5Isfm-aYkqY4SxHR7HKumCqlbYZGyvli

Duckfist Tutorial: (2/26/2013, but not very many strats are outdated for beginners)

cfb backup strats: (this is very useful for races! You will die a lot and when you do die, reference this so that you know what to do the next time to recover)

10:07 WR run (as of 2/9/2016):

Just found this out today. What I mean is, for example at the end of act 6 you enter the boss with 90 ninpo and usually throw away until you have 50 and then kill the boss. If you instead had ended the stage with the extra 40 ninpo, you would transition into act 7 at the exact same time. There is just a window of dead time that gets filled to countdown extra ninpo if you have any.

This is NOT true in ninja gaiden I, where you lose 3 frames per ninpo. I'm pretty sure it's irrelevant in ng3, since you use your ninpo on all of the bosses (and the countdown is so fast anyways).

BTW Scumtron knew about this in 2007 when he made his TAS, but no one paid any attention to it...

Out of curiousity I timed this exactly. When I write "x" frames off I mean this is as many frames you spend with NO input after being off of the wall and before holding right. For example 2 frames off means your inputs are right+a, no input, no input, b+left for those 4 frames.

Also it doesn't matter when you press b as long as it's on or before the frame you hold right, and after you jump.

Frames off --- Frames saved: 0 --- ?¤ 1 --- 3 2 --- 3 3 --- 2 4 --- none 5 --- 1 frame lost

These are somewhat approximated since your y subpixel is actually on a value of 0-255, so you gain fractions of pixels for every jump. These are still a good guideline, though.

I also made videos of Ryu climbing up the left wall in 1-1 at these rates to see what the slashes look like. I think my slashes are almost all within the 3-4 frame range, with a few 2's thrown in, and very rarely a 1 or 5. This means that every ~20-30 wallslashes gains me one second.

¤: I think when I tested this it was 2 frames gained, but this is misleading since doing right+a then followed by left+b on the same frame puts you in a strange state where you're facing right as you land on the wall. Doing this consecutively gains more time on average than 1 off and 2 off frame jumps for this reason.

I've actually thought a lot about this myself, so here are my thoughts:

Technical obervations from my standpoint:

For NG1, we reset so often that it would be more "accurate" in the long run to timing when we gain control of Ryu. In this case, if you did a frame-by-frame retiming, you would always get the same time if it took you 3 frames to press start to skip the cutscene rather than 1. A minor point, but it seems annoying to lose any amount of time because you can't skip cutscenes.

For NG2, without the need to press start a second time, it should be more "accurate" (uniformly in my opinion, not just on average) to start splits when you hit start. This is because you can simply press start with one hand and spacebar (or whatever your start split key) with the other.

Also for ending NG2, I think ending on when timer/ninpo hits 0 would be more accurate on average, because we can observe the timer decreasing, so we have a cue as to when the split should be hit. If not, we are judging and reacting based on when we lose control. Of course the former is also a judgment, but it also has a better anticipation factor (watching the timer decrease).

My personal opinions:

NG1: I don't run this game anymore, and my time isn't good, but I'd probably just want to keep it as is due to reluctance of change and for the point that I made above.

NG2: I am 100% on keeping it at ending on when ninpo/timer reaches 0. For starting, I am torn. I think starting timer on pressing start would be more accurate (and also uniform with Japanese timing), but it would then be different from the NG1 timing if we theoretically went with what I said for NG1. On the other hand, it will probably be a little difficult to get used to, and probably throws my hopes of getting sub 10:20 out of the window.

My final verdict: keep NG1 with when we gain control (don't listen to me since I don't run this), keep NG2's end timing (when timer reaches 0) and change the start timing to when we press start.

Also note that all of the top times in NG2 right now except for Ohon's 2-year old time do the timing for gain control of Ryu and when timer reaches 0 (including me, Jorf, Gus, and I believe Backslash).

edit: If Dxtr thinks we should change NG1 to begin when we press start, I think I would agree with that then, since I trust his judgment for that game. In this case, it would make sense to have NG2 begin at that time as well since you can skip the cutscene there.