United StatesRegarding that CoD WAW video above, since it was conveniently linked.
I think you're trying to answer the question "What's the lowest possible effort and highest possible memery I can put into a run and convince site staff to allow up on the site?" You're not concerned with posting a run, you're concerned with stirring up drama. The answer is by you taking this position, we're not going to do anything for you.
If you want to use the site use the site. What you're currently doing is wasting everyone's time. Thanks for that.
Just documenting this. In Jungle 1 after the second monkey, you can zip up the middle rising platform by holding jump. It's probably possible in a lot of other places. (Maybe the technique is already used in the run, I admittedly haven't watched it.)
Was verifying a run and trying to understand the differences as well. At the very least the JP title screen says 1991, and the US says 1992.
CandyBreaker looks 99% like the user who has been making 100s of accounts and getting involved in random marathons to trash the site and annoy other users. 0 traceability on social media, signed up for everything 8 days ago, seeking mod on games he doesn't have runs in, and just happens to want to get involved with a marathon. I really don't buy it. Careful who you hang out with.
u did it
Getting shot doesn't decrease foot power. Damage boosting can be useful though.
I did a bunch of TAS attempts with the varying foot power routes, utilizing essentially the same level of mediocre optimization in each. I subtracted out a couple errors, typically under 40 frames to come up with these final estimated values: (These are from power-on which adds about 3.3 seconds to console timing.)
A: 3 + 150/256, 13 stairs, Don't Grab Foot Power - 6825 frames B: 3 + 150/256, 13 stairs, Grab Foot Power - 6920 frames C: 4 + 240/256, 11 stairs, Don't Grab Foot Power - 6752 frames. D : 4 + 240/256, 11 stairs, Grab Foot Power - 6733 frames E: 7 + 0/256, 9 stairs, Grab Foot Power - 7005 frames
Route D appears fastest non tool-assisted. Route C may or may not come out slightly ahead when rigorously optimizing movement in a tool-assisted setting.
I've also added a note to the first post about not holding A/B during certain cutscenes.
I mean it's somewhat suboptimal, "disgrace" is a pretty strong word. Floor 35 early is still slower than the route I posted. I'm editing the route for better Heinrich positioning. The route should sub 2 with a solid run.
Note: I think I have better luck on the bottom floor when I alternate 33 and 32 instead of 32 and 31, but this could be nonsense.
EDIT: 1:53.75 mediocre TAS timed from power-on
"I think optimal Heinrich spot is right next to stairs, and you pick up C4 in the locked room next to the roof stairs."
That might be true. Is it possible to make Heinrich spawn there at that time in this route? (Spawns are really weird to me still.)
If you don't have to enter the floor 31 bandage room, it's slower to go in there in the 13 stairs route. If you try to trash down such that you need 11 stairs, it's probably faster to get the bandages. It may end up faster if Heinrich is it that specific room. I didn't test enough to know if that spawn is possible at that time or not.
New route: (Foot power updated Jul 29, 2018)
1: Go up to floor 33 2: Walk on glass for 8 seconds. (Lose 4 Foot boxes plus ~240/256 sub-units) 3: Take stairs 11 times. 4: Arrive on floor 32 at 39 seconds on lock two, hear the elevator 5: Go to floor 31, shoot a bullet to lure out Heinrich faster. (hope he's in the second room on the bottom), grab the first aid, get the detonators. 6: Take stairs to floor 35 7: Kill roof key crook (hope he's in the room on the right without checking the door.) 8: Grab the C4 near the roof door. 9: Go to roof, place C4, run to the top center.
Important: Do not hold the A or B button during the following cutscenes, you will lose about a quarter second while it loads the cutscene: -- John checks his pistol to find 15 bullets in the clip. -- John uses the First Aid Kit -- Ending victory.
Notes:
- It is probably a few frames faster to keep the pistol instead of grabbing the machine gun if you can manage low ammo, but it is very minimal.
- Grabbing the first aid appears to be just slightly faster than not grabbing it.
A mediocre TAS of this was able to get 1:52 from power-on.
I think I have better luck with RNG when I alternate 33 and 32 instead of 32 and 31, but this could be nonsense. I still don't understand how the enemy spawns in this game work. This is something worth looking into with the debugger.
More thorough discussion:
This route change does 2 things from the current route: 1: Don't go to floor 35 early. 2: Walk on glass on floor 33.
The most important time point in the run is being on the 32nd floor at around 39 seconds remaining on lock two. All current top 5 runs arrive at this time point currently. If you are a little late it's okay. If you leave to the 31st floor early, Heinrich will be in a bad spot, coming up from the elevator.
If you have the radio, this time point is where Hans says "Heinrich check the 31st floor.", which triggers an elevator with Heinrich whether or not you have the radio. By being on floor 32 when the elevator starts, when you go to floor 31 Heinrich will be in a semi-random spot. It seems as though if the elevator starts while you're on the 31st floor, Heinrich will be by the elevator which is very slow. (Using the elevator is slower than the stairs.)
Note that there is also a way to accidentally cancel the Heinrich event by triggering two events on one staircase. Going from 40 seconds down past lock two will trigger two events, and only the second event occurs. Heinrich never shows up with the detonators, or at least not for quite a while, I can't recall.
Approximate Game Time consumed per staircase at given foot power increment lost: 0: 15 seconds 1: 19 seconds 2: 22 seconds 3: 27 seconds 4: 31 seconds 5: 35 seconds
Walking a staircase cycle takes around 188 frames (3 seconds) for 1 cycle (slightly more or less depending on foot power.)
Need to drain about 375 seconds of game time, which is 25 cycles at foot 0 20 cycles at foot 1 17 cycles at foot 2 (3 cycles is 9 seconds) 13 cycles at foot 3 (4 cycles is 12 seconds) 12 cycles at foot 4 (1 cycle is 3 seconds) 10 cycles at foot 5
Walking on glass loses 8-11 foot power per 3 frames, or about 90 frames roughly to lose 1 foot power. FeetUnit = 0x0797 Feet = 0x0798 --8 feet bad, 0 feet good
I'm not aware of precisely how this game works. 4 people are modding over about 300 runs and this is only the second time in some months this complaint has come up. It seems unlikely to me that the mods are maintaining some massive conspiracy.
I would recommend discussing it with the other mods/runners under the context of "Why does this message show up in the console after the run?" I agree it seems a little strange, but maybe there's a reasonable explanation for that message. It seems a bit presumptive to jump straight to that conclusion that people are cheating based off a single person's information without discussing details first.
1: As discussed on Discord due to the recent run, Low% is kind of a bad label, and the rules are a bit ambiguous. Since people seem to like both misc categories, I think we could add "minimum collection" and "minimum level" It's a bit of category bloat, but there aren't exactly a ton of ways to run this game, so I tend to think it's fine.
2: I'd like to see "Uses OoB" and "Uses Spirit Dupe" combined into either "Uses Glitches" or "Glitchless". I don't think having both indepdently adds much value to the board. I'm probably biased by having a glitchless run, but I feel like that's something viewers would still want to see.
3: There will probably be a "Uses RNG Manip" Flag eventually. Theoretically most of the early game for a spirit dupe and possibly through Solvaring could be maintained with RNG manip. Additional, crazy things could probably be done from a save in Brannoch, though I haven't investigated that much yet.
The question of emulators was brought up in Discord.
Referencing some other SNES games on the site (particularly Super Mario World https://www.speedrun.com/smw/thread/8w7yc ), I think the following is a good start.
Suggested:
- bSNES Compatibility Core (Bizhawk, Higan, lsnes)
- SNES9x v1.5x and higher
Less preferred but probably acceptable:
- bSNES Performance Core (Bizhawk, Higan)
For this game, the big things to pay attention to for time accuracy are loading time between rooms, lag after midboss 1, and lag in the last part of stage 5.
I think emulating on another console such as an Xbox or a Wii introduces too many unknowns into the equation. In order to understand the legitimacy of a run or investigate nuances of the effects of the emulation, one would potentially need to fully recreate the hardware setup. Most people playing this game either have a PC or a SNES.
That's just my personal opinion. If other runners feel differently, please comment.
I deleted the account created after this post was made and changed the username here, though some of the minor details here aren't the clearest.
At a distant view, a situation like this looks like one of the following: 1: Unintentionally, by getting an unofficial version of the game, the user acquired a faster version. Either the mods the translator made to this version have sped up the game, or the method of play of the game has sped up the game. In this case, the runs aren't really comparable and would be rejected. This seems to have happened to this user with at least two games now, so the source of their flash games does not appear to be reliable. 2: The other option is that the user intentionally modified the game speed or video speed to get a faster time.
Whether it's intentional or unintentional, most of us can't really know for sure. The language barrier also makes it somewhat difficult to evaluate. We can't fully see what's going on because we can't read anything other than what some users are telling us. The user seems to be a well-known Chinese player based on the number of views they get, and being in a position like that makes people less likely to cheat in my opinions at least. I tend to think it was probably unintentional, but I can't know for sure.
Moderators sometimes get submissions where users cheat and speed up videos. Most of the time they are from users who are intentionally cheating, and it gets annoying to deal with. Once in a while it's a misunderstanding of the rules, or a bad game version, or a bad video upload, or some reasonable explanation. In this case, at the very least, the user needs to do a better case of validating that they are playing official or comparable versions of these flash games. If there's constantly a question of if the player is playing on a faster version, it makes it very difficult to know if a given submission by the user is legitimate.
At the very least, part of the "prejudice" being spoken towards is primarily that the user has issues getting accurate versions of flash games, which isn't entirely false. There is also a language barrier between us and the users and the site the video is on and the video comments. We can't see and understand all the details of the situation here. All we know is what the video shows, and what the users advocating on behalf of the user are saying. Trusting a "corrected" submission takes more attention to detail after the initial issue.
I can see exactly what happened here, not-so-mysterious alt-account man. This one is relatively minor, but if it comes up again I'm banning your main account per this thread: https://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/6sknq
I'm putting the moderators from Bloons Tower Defense 5 on this game since we've had issues before: https://www.speedrun.com/btd5/thread/s8gn4
I do not think recreating a known previously conflicting situation by creating the game with the moderators as currently listed was a good idea, and given that one of the users involved doesn't moderate any of the other games here (and in fact intentionally removed themselves at one point), I'm adjusting moderation accordingly.
If the other series moderators have a different opinion on this, feel free to get a hold of me or one of the site full mods.
starsmiley: I bumped you and the other active user up to super mods.
