My thought about the Stage 0 "problem" is that for there to be 2 separate categories, it'd have to be Any% and Any% glitchless.

Since the Any% definition is literally, "beat the game as fast as possible using any glitches available", it'd only make sense to have glitchless as the secondary category.

I'd also say that Superjump is a major glitch what with being able to access so many places early, while at most, Stage 0 allows Suwako early and some orbs.

To be honest. Right now it just seems like you don't want Stage 0 to be included because you don't want to do it for whatever reason. I don't think that's really a valid reason to make the separate categories.

Diversity in categories, yes. Any% and Glitchless Any% are very diverse. Twisting my words is pretty fun, huh? Of course you don't have to learn the glitch to be relevant. It would just mean taking the slower route since you would be using superjumps.

"But why does it outlaw this specific glitch and not the other one?"

Of course I don't think it only applies to you and Gensokyo no Nazo. But in the end, it's still Any% because it's using the fastest route. Clearly I need to start a forum to change that nonsense.

It's not glitchless if they use a glitch, so it makes no sense to call it glitchless. People really need to learn obvious terms.

Who said you were looking for first places? It's also a problem if you want it to be how one person specifically feels it should be instead of the community, "I just want this to be how I feel like it should be".

If nothing I say to explain stage 0 will do anything, what was the point of making this thread when with that train of thought, it's going to be the way you want it to be whether or not anyone else has a say in it?

"Did I say I wanted to call a Gensokyo no Nazo category any% glitchless?" I never said YOU wanted to. I read the post quite well and can say that not once did I say you want to change it to Glitchless.

"I propose to call runs using stage 0 glitch as "any%", aka the fastest way of completing a run." I clearly said, "it's still Any% because it's using the fastest route." as a reply to the Meat Boy Wrong Warp decision.

"Surely you have to use a different save in order to achieve a superjump" You don't technically have to use a different save file to do Any% or All Charcters either. Figure things out about Stage 0 before stating false information. Of course they're not comparable. Besides the fact that they're both glitches, Superjump is MORE of a glitch than Stage 0 as Superjump was patched out.

"Yeah I was twisting your words, you got me," "Right now it just seems like you don't want Stage 0 to be included because you don't want to do it for whatever reason. I don't think that's really a valid reason to make the separate categories." - me "From what I can understand in what you say is that when a new skip is found, I MUST learn it in order to be relevant in speedrunning?" - you Definition of twist someone's words. : to repeat what someone said in a way that has a different meaning Nowhere in that did I say you weren't relevant for not using it. I said, "I don't think that's really a valid reason to make the separate categories". I'd say that's twisting my words.

"Oh and yes split is gonna be done there's no doubt about it, this thread is meant to be for category names" Which is, again, you deciding everything for yourself for your own personal preference instead of asking everyone. I read your first post clearly. I'm just stating my feedback like you said should be done at the end of the first post. "Note that if no feedback is to be seen about this post, then I'll take decisions myself after a few days."

"then I'll take decisions myself after a few days." That's just abusing your mod duty at that point.

"it's amazing for you to spite me for running games" Clearly I decided to get a PB to spite you for running the game!! Why I did it, was out of spite, yes, but for something you said during your latest Any% PB! "ESGPuppetMaster: !WR" "Shadax1: WR was 11:29" There are a couple things wrong with that. 1: There isn't even an 11:29 on the board. 2: You undermined my run JUST because it uses Stage 0. So yes, I got frustrated when you deny my achievement just because it uses something you don't like. Call it childish if you like, but I don't like my achievements undermined.

"then I think it's time for me to amazingly take decisions." Which, like stated before, is only because you don't just want to rule out Superjumps for a Glitchless category.

It's literally just 100% based on what only you like and don't like.

"Why does it "only" make sense to have the secondary category be glitchless?" Because it doesn't make sense to get rid of one glitch without getting rid of the other when the other allows a lot more options.

"We already split categories between superjumping and no superjumping through the game version" I also question why it's even a thing to use the oldest version. I can already see the disagreements, but I find it much better to only use the current version (1.01). Of course, this is going to be written off really, REALLY, quickly.

"First of all, NG+ deserves the same treatment" NG+ isn't even really a thing.

Actually, back to the categories being separated by version differences... 1.0 and 1.01 actually don't have separate categories which means 1.01 has a clear disadvantage if it were to be run on Normal, or if 1.0 were to be run on Easy.

I stick with having Any% and Any% Glitchless, but my opinion really doesn't matter since Shad can do whatever he wants without anyone Else's input since he's a mod.

In other words, there's not even a point in stating my thoughts since nothing I do will matter~

The thing with Stage 0 is that it feels like you guys are treating it like something dirty; Like some sort of forbidden black art that will forever taint your soul if you use it. So for me, having actually figured out the glitch and put use to it... It's kind of disappointing that really nobody else (besides ZeldaFan) is using it. And it wasn't just me either; we ¤all¤ contributed to it's conception and making it what it is today. It's something we can say we discovered, over Super Jumping which has basically been a thing for as long as the game's been around. And yet, half of us are wanting a category that bans it exclusively...

This is why I proposed the glitchless category, because not only would this give a place for glitches like Super Jump and Stage 0, it would also handle the stupid version divide we have, allowing current version runs to be glitchless, and 1.0 runs to be glitched. The thing with this, though, is that if our 1.0 runners perpetually refuse to use Stage 0, it would only put them at a disadvantage.

Really, if we're gonna divide by glitches at all (and if it's going to be such a problem), we should divide it as many ways as we can. As in: Glitched, No Stage 0, No Super Jump, and Glitchless. This would basically give a place for all of the runs we do, ¤and¤ would better handle the version divide. V1.01e would have Glitchless and No Super Jump, and V1.0 would have Glitched and No Stage 0. Of course, this is assuming that we can make another layer of categories.

(Though, really, I would like to know what the problem with Stage 0 is)