@TeaTotalTemplar I think it's quite obvious what he was referencing was the timer possibly changing. Actually suggesting this rule was put in place to protect that tweet is just as dumb as the rule itself.

You guys (the mods) are just going to have people not skip cutscenes now. I was a fan of RE2/RE7's style of the allowed pause rule (but I see you changed RE7's rules on it, I specifically remember RE2's pause rule was inherited from 7). That's a bummer, and it's going to impact a lot of peeps.

Otherwise, the rest of it looks like standard/to be expected stuff. Good job and good luck to runners.

Agreed, assisted should be the stock gun only with no NG+ items. Fair points on a bit of the challenge being removed using any of the NG+ items in Standard though, even if I hate the idea of purposefully dying so many times for CT Nemmy/Jill Defense.

Good to know that only the assault coin(s) are needed though. The edge + coin combo always seemed really OP.

Ahh, yeah it was the shotty ammo I was thinking of. I think you're 100% right, this route is impossible without DA manipulation. And a lot of it, which sucks.

You've done a great job though, you cross all the viable ammo spots and put a lot of work into this. I don't think anyone can question the viability of this being possible without manipulation.

With that said, and assuming this is going to be an Extension category in the first place, what are your guys' thoughts on using NG+ items, even if just the coins? All the DA manipulation (although proven quite clearly to be necessary) puts a bad taste in my mouth, strictly because of the real world time it eats up dying 8 times to CT Nemmy.

I'm kinda curious what this route would look like with the Assault Coins + Samurai Edge + no deaths (or very few). Infinite ammo definitely makes this category less interesting and is least preferable.

Yeah, I could see the Moon's ammo being awkward. I thought the waterfall had a box + ammo, but I very well could be wrong. And there's two pickups of HG Ammo on Flame Nemmy, you grab one. I think that's probably the only one that's potentially viable since you run past it during the fight.

And yeah no -- forget 15-20 minute boss fights. And I completely spaced the Defend Jill section, so dropping the DA lower makes a lot of sense. Good work again on this, I look forward to seeing it optimized.

Good run. Some more spots for ammo I noted were skipped (could be viable as backup/extra):

• Behind Moon's. Turn right after exiting the double doors (same side of Moon's as the railway)
• Behind the waterfall in the sewers. Not sure if the Gamma behind you would get in the way though.
• A pickup is missed during Flame Nemmy.

Other notes:

• I like the tactic to shoot the barrel to two-for-one the gunpowder and upgrade. Smart.
• I swear Flame Nemmy was down as well! I was surprised you got whacked.
• DA manip for clock nemmy is interesting. Feels dirty, but interesting. 8 deaths is a lot to drop it though.
• Same goes for the DA manip with the hunters in the hospital.
• I didn't know you could falcon punch the generators.
• Yes, Jessie is better than Tifa. You're a man of good taste.

Nice job. You've proven its doable. I'm curious how necessary the DA manips are (or at least if it has to go all the way to 3k during Clock Nemmy).

I've always been super interested in Handgun Only, so I'm curious how this develops. If the DA drop (especially for Clock Nemmy) is necessary, I'm curious if its that much worse to just use the infinite handgun over purposefully dying at least 8 times during the run.

Very fun to watch though and I want to try it myself now. Good job again @WhamBam_TV

Yeah, the autosplitter feeds in the actual game time. So when you see Livesplit's timer pause, that's because the actual game time is pausing too. This happens during cutscenes, pausing the game, and radio sequences.

No, nothing should require manually splitting. The final split should trigger at the credits, I believe. If something was skipped, double check your split settings.

Hey @mrnoxx93 are you still having problems with this? If it's still not pausing after following Trance's steps, I can take a look at your Livesplit layout file (alternatively, try creating a fresh layout by changing the layout to "default").

A layout with incorrect comparison settings can override the "Compare to Game Time" step and cause this issue.

I suggest you look at my other part of the post where I point out you don't need a third party tool to cap your framerate to 120 then (I mean kinda, but you should have these already on your computer as part of your drivers). The mention of Livesplit being a third party tool required for a run was mostly for memes but it figures that's the part you'd get hung up on and ignore the important part lol

I understand your point, kinda, but I don't think it's a reason to force the majority to cap to a framerate they don't want to run at. Though honestly, depending on how things go, I might be more in favor of a split or something anyway. At least I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction things go, unless most people don't mind the bleed difference. You won't find a lot of support for 60 fps cap in non-split board setup though, even if you called a vote.

I wasn't aware there was bleed in RE2r, nobody has ever mentioned it to me, or came to me in DM talking about it and requesting I do shit like with this. Heck, I wasn't even paying the bleed in 3 any mind before I was asked to.

Though I do see the 0.10 bleed in Igor's run. Still, add up the time bleeds in RE2r and compare them to RE3r (which is much more cutscene heavy, with many more back to back cutscenes).

I haven't tested the bleed for RE2r, I assume its similar, but I've had wildly inconsistent bleeds on the same frame rate for RE3. 89 cutscenes, that becomes a problem to me. And RTA won't solve it because of the movement delays associated with the cutscenes, so IGT capped is probably the cleanest solution, I've agreed with that lol. But let's not pretend this timing isn't garbage. Do it IGT and do it capped (just not 60, unless you split it for fairness to them, I don't see it working out otherwise). That's basically the only conclusion I've been able to come up with for several hours now.

As for the 9ish (shown to actually be closer to 11.8ish) second disparity over those 89 cutscenes in runs, I'm not sure what to do about it, I've tossed a bunch of suggestions (even division was one of them). Or just ignore it like RE2r. As long as you get your time on the board and are happy with that conditional. Still think its worth discussion on how to handle it, unless it was ballooned to me to be this greater problem than it is to most people, in which case, yeah, I think you have your answer. I feel like I wasted time trying over engineered solutions, although I get the original intention

I've always agreed with a cap of some sort, I've been saying that for a couple of days on the Discord. So yes, cap the framerate (sole thickness), but if I brought flipflops (60 FPS) to the race and I couldn't afford boots, I would probably just apply a filter and compare my times with other flipflop runners if it hurt my running ego that much. Rather than suggest everyone wear flipflops (like is being genuinely tossed around here by some people).

In this games state though, there really does need to be some FPS cap, I can get behind that, and I hope the mods consider that. It should just be a middle ground between the high-end boots and the low-end flipflops, if you want a true middle ground "even playing field". Otherwise you're just asking to cater to flipflops, ignoring some people are uncomfortable racing in flipflops.

Mad? No, just your putting words into my mouth about elitism is where I had to stop reading, that wasn't ever the point. The point is you should at least run the game at the recommended requirements (which CAN hit the 120 range, if not you have something wrong with your system) if you want to compete for a WR time, not try to drag others down as a handicap. If I want to run in the Olympics, should I have them make sure all other runners can only run at the same speed I'm capable of running at? I mean they're opening up more competition doing that. Or should there be a basic barrier to entry, a recommended requirements? That's all I mean lol. At least 60 FPSers can still compete, and in some cases, still dominate many 120 FPS runners (before you reach the top tier players, in which case ya, you'll probably struggle to some degree against people with a smoother and more comfortable experience)

And who brought up nationality? I never have, once in this community. Really gross card to pull against someone that's never said anything ill about anyone's nationality, tbh. But forget it, I don't want to detract any further. I just want to say there isn't any single person in this community I hold some grudge against or don't like. I spent a good chunk of my time trying to fix a broken timer (before other things showed that its just screwed beyond timing). And while doing that, I had people in other countries where technology is much more expensive in the back of my mind. I get it, and I wanted an open board where everyone was on the same playing field (before you reach the inevitable input drop argument, which I'm still against separation etc for - if this game weren't as broken as it really is).

I'm going to duck out of this thread, as with all the recent revelations (many that haven't been noted yet on the boards AFAIK), I think this game is just too busted for my taste. I don't know how to truly even the playing field without a potential divide, IGT bleed sucks, lag on gaining control of your character sucks and I doubt Capcom will fix it. If you guys figure something out and I can help, I'm happy to do so, otherwise I wish every runner and potential runner the best of luck, and I look forward to watching your runs.

I think the mods are planning to split consoles though by system, no? I think it definitely should be that way as there definitely is differences. Console is probably the most fair way to run this, if the console types were separated, honestly.

And why do I care what other speedrun communities are doing? I guess it doesn't matter here, it's just always been odd to me how backwards the RE community is when it comes to actually optimizing games for "inclusiveness". Its one thing to separate when there's clear difference (RE2 knife, definitely consoles for RE3 at the very least), it's another to impose goofy levels of caps on PC and pretend it fixes the core problem. With this game in particular, any cap is going to cause problems, so you might as well meet in the middle somewhere, imo.

I will say, even how soon you regain control of Jill again after a cutscene depends on framerate. So even RTA is no good. I like the newer RE games, but Capcom keeps dropping the ball so hard when it comes to errors that impact the SR community, and that's honestly the only thing that actually pisses me off with any of this.

tbh, I had to stop reading your post, my vision was blurring a bit from my eyes rolling. But no, it has nothing to do with "when you plebs" but everything to do with "meet the recommended requirements if you want to run the game optimally, let alone if you want to speedrun the game optimally". You will literally be laughed out of any other speedrun community if you try to push the crap you've done before. Best of luck to you and no hard feelings, but I'm just stating bigger scope speedrun facts.

And regarding the LB, with the IGT the way it is, I'm a bit disheartened from a fair playing ground perspective. I really don't know what to do about it, I think this game is just the way it is, and I see people resetting when bleed is too bad being in the future. I think everyone can agree that sucks. What I do suggest is some sort of cap though. Capless isn't the answer here.

That's actually incorrect, the bleed is going to be different from system to system, even if everyone caps at 60. This has already been stated. Everyone capping to any specific framerate, even if everyone could hit 120, is going to cause fluctuation. Honestly this timer thing is a mess and I wish luck to the mods and community on handling it haha. I'll probably stick to playing it casually tbh

If you mean extra loads being the IGT bleed, that's going to fluctuate system to system, and the community would need to agree on a number. I could easily do that though. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, @Orchlon

I can detect the framerate of the runner and on cutscenes reimburse runners based on what fps they're on, for example

I can only actually recall a couple of actual straight up loads where load removal would kick in, but load removal kicking in for pauses would really just be a compromise to those that usually use cutscenes for a quick stretch, really. Otherwise I would say to hell with it lol.

Here's my opinion on this: RTA with load removal. That means cutscenes run the timer, and yes, that's going to piss some people off. But look at the classic games, heck, even the remake of RE1. Time kept running even during cutscenes. Skipping cutscenes is a thing you just do.

Even if we capped at 60, and every runner ran at 60, this IGT is broken. If I ran at 60, and Haze ran at 60, we're going to get completely different bleed totals throughout our run, even if we both ran a completely identical run with the same exact RNG.

So just capping at 60 isn't the solution. I really think, in my personal opinion, and even after spending 55+ hours on this script, that it really should just be actual load remover, and RTA should roll during cutscenes. And as much as I would like to use this script I've busted ass on, I think the cleanest way is just straight up RTA and remove the loads so somebody doesn't need to worry about SSD or HDD speeds.

I could even pause it on the pause menu, so you could get your barrings during a cutscene pause.

Whether you guys split 60/120, cap at this or that, I don't care. I just want it to be fair for everyone (especially a 60 FPSer vs a 60 FPSer, and raw IGT that's certainly not the case), and you're going to have disparity with this IGT. I think we can all agree its broken BS. It's just a matter of how we even the playing field that we need to agree on.

I will help where I can, its up to you guys what I do.

^ You must not have ever run a game before that doesn't have an IGT and requires a tool like Livesplit

The game supporting capping at 60 isn't an excuse to force everyone to abide by it.

As already stated, you don't even need an external tool to cap the game framerate to 120, so...

Whatever you do, stay away from RE7 runs @damiPXB