Got it, updated OP again to reflect the further discoveries :)

Update - @captain_ezekiel also pointed out that some cutscenes DO count for IGT, and others don't. I updated the original post to include this.

I'm glad people are receptive to this so far!

I haven't finished Village yet, how often/bad are the load times? Either way, I'm down with writing load removal but that doesn't really help for console.

Hey everyone! We made some discoveries recently about the games timer and I would like to get a friendly and open discussion going on how we should time this game, at least for PC. Note I'm not a moderator, just trying to kickstart the conversation so everyone can express their point of view in an equal way.

Recently it was discovered that the IGT is paused while in the inventory. At this point, I feel like this is a great chance to switch to RTA, at least for PC.

Edit: It's also important to note that cutscenes add to IGT. So this game appears to be the exact opposite of previous titles. Menus = pauses time (inventory, the duke etc) - cutscenes = IGT roll. WTF?

Its always made sense why the RE series has used IGT, but as time goes on it makes more sense to use RTA for quite a few reasons.

Just to quickly put out my thoughts:

• Time spent menuing in the inventory absolutely should be counted against the runner. It's a huge part of the skillset to be good at this series in terms of times. The fact it isn't in the IGT is pretty ridiculous, let's be real. You could stop reading my other points here, this is reason enough imho. But there's more :P

• Less drama and less rules. The moderator team will not have to keep tabs on how long someone is in their inventory, speeding up approval times. Runs won't be rejected because someone is arguably taking too long.

• The IGT can be easily manipulated and cheated, even when using a tool such as the SRT or autosplitter.

• RTA with load removal will make the game more of a leveled playing field and there won't be any slight discrepancies because of hardware differences.

• Doing it this way makes it cleaner to create sub-categories that might skip intros (I'm not intending to open that can of worms directly, but @uhTrance did bring this up)

• Capcom has been kinda dropping the ball with their timers the last few releases, starting with 7 (which doesn't even have a real IGT in memory, technically, and I wonder if VIL is the same). Speedrunning is about beating the game as fast as possible, and in 3R the game is literally played in a slower real time to exploit their silly built in timers.

• I'm sure we could still pause the timer with cutscenes if people needed that, and that is a concern.

So please put in your thoughts as well. Any points you would like to make to reinforce this, or be against this. I feel like we should get it addressed as a community together earlier rather than later.

I know change sucks and IGT has been a staple, but with the wonkiness Capcom has had with the last few releases, I feel like this is a solid time to transition, personally.

Looking forward to seeing everyone's thoughts. Please keep it as cordial as possible, even if you find disagreement with others.

I just wanted to say I'm glad to see there's been continued interest in this "meme category" and that the mods are working on a solution. When this was originally suggested, it definitely wasn't ever supposed to be such a pain in the ass to get working.

Having this accessible to everyone will be a net positive! The original idea was being able to practice the actual game without the biggest reset points being after an on-rails section --- and in a semi-competitive way. It was always very unfortunate Steam/PS4 had to be excluded in the first place.

Splitter is updated to support the update. Any issues, please let me know.

@CBItemBox -- you shouldn't be prompt for anything, it should just update.

For Japanese players: Updated to support Cero Z version as well.

Autosplitter should now work with the latest update. Any problems, please let me know.

@Squirrelies is working hard to get the SRT updated, once that's done he will dive into the Cero Z version to make it work for that and pass along information to me so I can update the splitter for you :) @nonnonx

@nonnonx I do not own Cero Z, so I rely on someone else to pass me the information from the Cero Z version. Once I get the information from him I will update the splitter to support the update for Cero Z as well. Thank you for your patience, I will have it updated as soon as I have the information required. :)

@lwjcser try just typing "Resi" and then waiting for the dropdown suggestions to begin auto-populating.

Death counter variable doesn't update until after the boss HP would be set to 0.

Dying to bosses and triggering the boss split is a known (and currently unavoidable) issue. The RE engine likes to set the bosses HP to 0 on "Continue" but the game never actually sets Jill's HP to zero when she dies. So I can't run a check to see if Jill is still alive to negate that effect.

It's an unfortunate issue that effects mostly newer players. Eventually people will be resetting the run altogether if they die, so it "goes away" with time. Still wish I could fix it though. Sorry!

You want to make new splits all together, just changing the category in your splits won't work.

Yes, we disabled cloud sync. The problem is zgl wasn't seeing my save files. His were gone in the slot they should be, but mine were not showing up, instead the files were just empty.

And what I meant by DLC, is that RE7 had all the unlockable items sold as cheap DLC. You could, for example, pay a buck and have Madhouse already unlocked. A couple bucks and all the coins are instantly unlocked. Things you get in the game just playing it... but ya know, Capcom.

So my theory was ultimately that they specifically disabled save sharing (something you fully can do as a dev with Steamworks) so they could sell their cheap DLC and someone couldn't just post a save to instantly unlock things for everyone.

Now by comparison, someone brand new to Cero D could take my official NGH saves and instantly have several of the unlocks. So I think it boils down to just trying to sell cheap DLC for people that don't want to earn the unlocks via game.

If that's the reason, it's 100% a sketchy corporate reason, but it also prevented the No Guest House category from being compatible with the Steam version :/

Cero D is just a different version of RE7 that's censored. Censored content = 20ish seconds of free time save. The Cero D version is Microsoft store exclusive (without using a VPN and a new account to buy off Steam, that is). The MS Store version/Cero D doesn't prevent you from sharing saves.

The Steam version of 7 does, however. Not sure why the devs did that. Maybe it was to sell instant unlocks as DLC.

If you're able to get someone else's saves working on a different Steam ID, then that's good news and means its possible. It just wasn't possible in RE7's Steam version, at least from all the tests @zgl and I did.

Again, neither for or against the skip, was just pointing out something that was a limitation from another game in the series. But perhaps its not an issue in RE3

Whatever you guys end up doing with this, you need to consider how you're going to distribute a save that works for Steam. RE7 and RE2 (and I highly suspect RE3 as well) do not allow save sharing. My saves simply will not show up for you, and vice versa.

I'm neither for or against it. I could see why people would want to skip it, but coming from RE7 running, I don't see 4 minutes nearly as big of a deal as a literal walking on rails sim for 15 minutes (with like a 3 minute unskippable cutscene before you even control Ethan for the first time)

If you did figure it out though, let me know. Would be great to allow NGH in RE7 to be a category for Steam runners that don't have Cero D. Even if that category is considered a meme, if more runners could skip all that BS, I feel like more runners would run RE7.

Never experienced that @oujisan2236 does it happen when the splitter is disabled too?

@kaushik24june don't do that. You do not need the ASL in your layout if you have it enabled via the "Activate" method as well. You're essentially running the autosplitter twice, so you're splitting twice. I suggest ditching the layout method all together, as the "Activate" method will automatically retrieve the latest updates to the splitter when you launch Livesplit.

@nonnonx I pushed an update that should support Cero Z. Please let me know if you experience any issues. Next time you restart Livesplit you should receive the update.

Not right now, but in a future update I will support Cero Z.

Is it fair to assume knife/pistol only will be in category extensions then? Or are we jumping too far ahead