EnglandI have taken a long break from playing COC, and have come to realise that i will not be returning, I no longer see the game I once knew and loved since the significant changes to the Meta with the introduction of the Clan Capital Etc. I will remain registered as a moderator here and on Discord to ensure continuity for the community. However, as an inactive player with no experience of the current game, I would no longer feel qualified to verify runs or add new categories, and will not actively participate in such routine tasks on SR.C If there are major issues ping me here or on the discord, otherwise ping the other mods for verification delays etc. Good Luck and ClaSH oN!
As far as I can tell, this mod was created by Matthew Meacham as a skills test for Grayfruit while he was running user submitted nights level editor layouts: https://www.twitch.tv/thegrayfruit https://www.youtube.com/c/grayfruit/featured
Original run on YT:
i have tried reaching out to Gray, at least to put his run on the board, but no response as yet. i can find nothing else about the creator beyond his name in the credits. If anyone has more info I would be grateful, especially to find MM and find out how he did it, this is AFAIK the only deluxe mod in existence, lots of cheat engine codes but no level editor etc, that only works for Nights so far.
Please accept my official request for a new game type to be added for Rom Hacks. A mod would need to request as game types can only be set by content mods, using the Game Type Adjustment form to request changes.
First category would be for the "Pegged" Mod
Full run video: Source Files: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ku1ANcgHRCJrnfQ3Jc7hNa3wOgVJDABs
We have a leaderboard that stopped working on support hub update day, no runs are showing, even fresh submissions. The runs are still there and listed by +speedrun.bot, just not showing on the site. Reported twice on support hub as site bug and request support. 5 days in, no response or confirmation at all, no record that i even made the reports in the first place. How can i escalate this and actually get someone to acknowledge we have an issue, never mind get it fixed?
Surprise! As a special thank you for my becoming moderator we have two new runs:
Goblin Pentathlon
Goblin Decathlon
Both split by by attackers TH level, 23 new records in all for players of all levels, enjoy and have fun! CLASH ON!
Goblin Pentathlon Demo Run TH5 2m 0s 100ms
Goblin Decathlon Demo Run TH 12 4m 41s 767ms
Another long post, but I need something to do while the clouds swirl.... With a New Year coming soon, and hoping that we can continue with the recent upturn in building the games community, a few thoughts which hopefully will bring some closure to past divisions and arguments, and some guidance for people unfamiliar with the game, and new runners in the future:
Since I became active in the games community and from reading back as much as I can find about the legacy of CoC on SR.C, I have seen that there has always been much dispute and debate about the game not being “Fair” to Speedrun, and it has often been further described as “Broken”. I have also discussed this at length with some of our old moderators.
I will deal with what I believe these points have meant to people separately, but I see both as being a matter of perspective, and building understanding of these differences in viewpoint is vitally important to the games future as a Speedrun platform.
“Fair?” On first impressions, when coming from the traditional SR.C viewpoint as based in the legacy console gaming mindset, thinking that CoC is unfair would be the correct observation: “Everybody’s game is different to everybody else’s!”
This view expects a fixed asset: to always start exactly the same game code from the “start” and play to the “end”. Their definition of what makes “Fair” from this point of view is that it must always be exactly the same for everyone, every frame of every game, even though start and end point definitions are often arbitrary and user-defined.
The older or more badly coded the game the better, as it gives more opportunity for exploits like clips and glitches to be found within the games fixed code, and thus prolong its lifespan as a Speedrun. SMB1 would be my prime example as the highest profile run on the site. Many N64 games are now total glitch-fests to the point of being ridiculous, but as anyone could learn to do the glitches the records are still valid...?
Clash of Clans, in total contrast, is a modern server based online game; constantly updating and adding features while removing any glitches or exploits. Its only opportunity for improving and expanding its Speedrun lifespan in the online era is to be reactive, and embrace and accommodate those changes.
Every CoC game account is deliberately unique, immediately from starting the tutorial. For example, even just the variance in the time taken between building collectors slightly affects their loot levels when refilled over time etc. and starts to build-in micro-differences. Players take their own path in the sequence of developing their account and the differences expand.
The difference in mindset is in accepting that the game itself then controls all these differences, and makes it “Fair” across all of these unique player accounts, in the matchmaking. The CoC player embraces the online basis of the game. It actually is always the same for everyone, not frame for frame, but upon the server, equalised by only ever matching players at the same level of account development.
Putting it very simply (let’s not get stuck in the algorithm debates, head to the SC forums if you are really interested), CoC grades every account on its defence, troop and trophy levels and then gives it an overall value, sometimes referred to as its “war weight”. This “weight” is then used to match to opponents within a predefined range of similar values. I can use boxing weight divisions as an example: flyweight, lightweight, middleweight etc.
From a CoC player’s POV there is no issue with fairness, as they only ever match with other players who are in the same “weight” range. Lightweight TH5’s will match TH4 to TH6; Middleweight TH10’s will match TH9-11 etc. It has to be so; people would not play an otherwise unfair game.
If you accept that playing CoC is made “fair” on the basis of your accounts unique “weight”, then logically Speedrunning CoC must also be fair, as every player will only ever match run attempts at their accounts “weight”.
If you are playing a TH5 account you will only match, and can only attempt, the TH4, 5, 6 records. If you are playing a TH12 account you will only match, and can only attempt, the TH11, 12, 13 records.
There is also a limited amount of levelling in the Single Player Goblin Levels where the defending TH hit-points change to match the attacking TH value.
Can any player go for any record anytime – No! Light-Heavyweights will only ever fight other Light-Heavyweights. Can fixed-code game players actually go for every record anytime –No! Often you have to have completed the game already to unlock modes or levels. Clash of Clans can never be completed, only maxed out: it is endless.
OK, only long-term CoC players have the high level troops necessary for some CoC records, but you could draw a parallel in that in reality, only a relatively few long-term fixed code game players have both the playtime and experience to attempt their WR’s. New entrants need to grind up over some time to even approach matching them.
So, is this game fair? Depends on your definitions, but as both a CoC player and a Speedrunner I think it is close enough, and I am happy to accept it as it is.
Broken? People within the traditional mindset who have previously considered the game “Broken” have usually raised one or both of two points:
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You can “manipulate” the game account setup to more easily set records.
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The game has regular updates, so you cannot compare runs over time.
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Account Manipulation This is the core of the game, everyday life to every CoC player: They think “Huh-So What?”
Manipulating your account to find the “Best” matches has been the central feature of the game since it started. “Best” depends upon your personal motivation in the game at the time; defence to farm and build, or attack to push for cups and leagues?
Base designs, troop and building upgrade paths and sequencing etc are all central to your progress within the game, and the choices you make then affect the attack matches your account, and your clan, will then find in multiplayer.
It has been common knowledge within the game community, from the very start, that if you push any of the match-making variables like trophies, defence or single troop levels to extreme values, you will get some extreme and unusual matches in return, but usually with the disadvantage of waiting longer “In the Clouds” for a match with a similar extreme value. (Imagine trying to match a heavy-flyweight boxer who has massive fists and a tiny body, or vice –versa! or placing a WBC champ in an amateur match)
The main two methods of “manipulation” are: “Rushing”: not upgrading buildings and troops beyond the minimum, apart from those required to progress with attacking and levelling up the Town Hall. “Pushing” & “Cup-Dropping”: deliberately changing your accounts trophy and league position to affect matching and bonuses.
“Pushing”. You can advance divisional placement more rapidly if you cherry-pick the easiest low-level matches in your range by “Nexting”: repetitive matchmaking searches to gain trophies (=cups). This gives high level opponents with full storages/empty collectors and big bonuses.
This is closest to Supercells intention of how the game should normally be played. (Amateur boxers winning purses and working up the rankings to Pro) The game is biased to always award more trophies than are lost, and thus regulate divisional advancement proportionate to the accounts TH level.
However, you can force it to go the other way when you “Cup-Drop” – deliberately and repetitively starting and losing attacks to reduce your trophy level, usually by placing one troop or hero and then immediately surrendering.
This is discouraged by SC through Trophy Award values: e.g. Win +20 v Lose-3 so it takes a lot of time and effort. (Like sweating off weight to match lesser opponents!).
The lowest trophy levels are desirable as they have a high number of inactive accounts which are easier to beat, having full collectors/empty storages and discharged defences, aka “Dead Bases”. They are often high-level but rushed, under-developed, or based on obsolete tactics e.g. “NoWalls”. These are also the “Best” targets for Speedruns.
Mastering these “manipulations” is the very art of CoC, the expression and reflection of a CoC player’s skill and experience within the game. Every player is constantly searching for new ways to find an advantage. They take just as much time and dedication to grind out, and are the CoC equivalent of, the pipe jumps and wall clips that only a relatively few players can perform consistently in the fixed code arena and only after much practice across multiple attempts.
It could even be argued that this requires more intelligence and dedication than just memorising and timing a set input sequence on a gamepad, or waiting a set time between Reset and Start to manipulate the enemy RNG. There is considerable skill and dedication by a few in TASing etc. and finding these glitches, but not in their execution by all players after their discovery.
The CoC player will appreciate and respect the Speedrun record holder’s skill and application in achieving the conditions to complete a run the lowest time, just as much as the basic execution and timing of placing the troops.
Most runs still have an element of luck in finding the perfect match, but why disapprove of those who make their own luck: by putting a lot of effort into lowering their odds.
The CoC mindset is not that it is “Unfair” or “Broken” that the other player has got to that position out on their own, more like “how did they get there, and how can I do the same”. It is still “fair” and it works, as the new player still has the opportunity to match them through putting the time and effort in, just like practicing multiple runs to perfect the new “3 bump frame-rule save” etc.
- Game Updates The other traditional mindset argument for “Broken” is that the regular major updates of the game by SC, which introduce higher troop levels, result that the records cannot ever be compared over time, and so are meaningless.
For example: runs from the time of max TH12, done with the then max Lv7 dragons could all be beaten with the new max Lv8 dragons after the TH13 update dropped, so all the TH12 version records were then made incomparable and obsolete.
By comparison, the discovery over time of major new glitches such as BBG in SMB1 has effectively had the same effect: making all the old runs completed without using them now incomparable and obsolete, but this is not considered as “broken”, just “optimised”.
The CoC player just sees updates as their regular opportunity to improve their run, their attitude being more like when a new glitch or exploit is found in a “fixed code” game, just something new to improve everybody’s times again.
SMB1 now has only 3 known frame-rule saves available; once these have been human executed the run will be totally optimised and new players can only ever tie, unless a new glitch is found. That sounds kind of dead and broken to me...
So, finally, is CoC “Broken” as a Speedrun Platform? No, just new and different. If you think it’s broken you are stuck in the past.
One of the major stated principles of SR.C is that a games community of players should decide and maintain their own records as appropriate to their game.
Our runs just reflect our game and how we play it. They are not always the same as in other games. We adapt and fit our run categories to suit as necessary like any other game does, but from within the CoC mindset of acceptance and assimilation of its unending evolution and development, reflecting the modern online era of gaming, rather than the narrow traditional methodology of an increasingly complex exploitation of a single fixed asset.
We understand that this game is unlike those fixed code games of the past.
We don’t cry that the new TH level update has ruined the old records; we just add the new categories and play on.
We accept the game as is, online in nature and with its constantly changing updates and fashions in army compositions and base designs. This is the CoC we know and love to play, always as crazy, diverse and extreme as its players, but it is not, and never has been, “Broken”.
If you still think it is, you just don’t fully understand it, and you probably never will. Best you just leave us alone, keep your opinions to yourself, and go play another game.
CLASH ON!
P.S. The realities of being a CoC Speedrunner: On a spare account I opened and rushed a new Builder Hall: only building and upgrading the Laboratory and Army Camp, researching the Barbarians and nothing else. I now use this exclusively for BH2 Finish Attacks and never upgrade anything. The record is currently around 8.xxx s. No “normal” COC player would ever do this, but any experienced player who Speedruns would soon figure out how to set this up and compete with me. My resulting extreme high troop to minimum base level value “weight” means that I get exclusively BH2 matches, but with up to a 10 m wait time per match; eventually the algorithm expands its range and matches a more “normal” player, hopefully also at the minimum base level and thus a candidate for a run attempt. You have to play every match, no “Nexting” in BH, trophies are +30 win v -15 lose so cup-dropping is hard, and the more cups you add, the longer the wait times get. You have highest level troops for your range, so every failed attempt wins 3 stars in 10-11s, and adds cups. Every bad match with a base design you can’t run has to be a cup-drop surrender, but you still have to wait for the opponent to finish their attack, and then wait for a match again. Every player who has just accepted the default building positions and not done their own design is a bad match. 3 or 4 bad matches in a row easily kills half an hour for absolutely nothing back, not even some practice. Across several sessions I did about 80+ attempted runs out of 150 to 200 matches to finally get a #1 record. Several attempts were sub-10s and a few sub-9, for all of which I had to stop running and time check (and would all have been #2 at the time, but who really wants that?) Do the math and see how long all of that took -and then don’t try and tell me that’s not a Grind just because I’m not continuously pushing on a D-pad! I see very little difference in regards to effort or time spent than in a player doing 100x SMBAny% runs, but missing an 8-3 frame-save on most of them and resetting. We both did our version of a grind but if we didn’t stream it no-one knows. They will only submit their 5 min video of their one good run, like I only submitted my one successful 8s attack.
PPS Update 25 January 2021: We now have two new pairs of Full Game Categories that I hope will close the debate for good. Town Hall Any% and Town Hall 100% are the same for all, as they begin from the start of the game. Goblin Pentathlon and Goblin Decathlon are the same for all players at the same Town Hall Level. None of them have any matching "luck" or "manipulation" issues.
I hope you enjoy playing them! CLASH ON!
Application for a Leader-board restructure and new run category sets with sample any% run videos at game Mods request To be reposted with timing screenshots on the COC discord
Please note: Apologies for the long post, but I have had a lot of time to think this through, having been planning this category over several months during 50+ practice and trial runs. I have tried to cover as much detail to eliminate any obvious issues or exploits, and answer as many questions as possible.
I will welcome any comments, or issues raised that I may have overlooked. I have been active in the game community and fully expect some extended discussion with the mods on discord before any changes are made, as there has been a lot of disagreement in the past around the broader subjects.
BTW I’ve been into watching all kinds of Speedruns since AndrewG’s SMB runs first broke through to mainstream, and I love playing Clash, 8 years in March 21! I never thought I would put them together and start running, and everything I’m suggesting is honestly intended for the long-term good of the game.
New Run Category Request
Let’s start by considering what makes a “Pure Speedrun”, as seen in the main category for almost every other game on SRDC: 1 Start at the start of the game. 2 Play to the end as fast as you can (where end = an agreed target)
If we apply this to Clash of Clans, which at its core is a Tower Defence (=Building) game, then logically the only Pure Speedrun CoC can offer must be:
Upgrade Town Hall (UTH) Start a new game account and upgrade the Town Hall to the required level as quickly as possible.
I have suggested the rules, sub categories, and the runs allowed below.
Leader Board Restructure Request
IMHO the runs suggested should become the “Full Game” leaderboard, because in this case it is actually what the player is required to do: play both parts of the full game, attack and build.
The existing full game board could then become a third main separate Attack Leaderboard for the (luck based, manipulated, and much debated) categories it now contains.
I think that the game would then become a much better “fit” and improve its poor reputation within the broader context of SRDC. It’s still not perfect in comparison to most other games, but I think it’s as close as we will ever get.
I would hope to see UTH5Any% eventually becoming the top “Gold Medal” CoC record, as it offers accessibility along with flexibility for finding different strategies, enabling new players to attempt new records for some time to come.
Why do I think it is it the purest run / good for the game?
Anyone can try, at any time, on exactly the same level as the #1 player: just download the game. It’s the same for everyone, every time. No external influence or luck, just the lone players’ skill, knowledge and execution versus the game engine. Multiple Required skills: attacking, resource management, sequencing and planning, execution and timing. The Multiplayer matching scales fairly for all, tracking base development and player’s skill/win rate. It’s very rarely affected by SC game upgrades :-) On trend – more suitable for streaming than watching someone grinding next’s for hours!
This is the sort of run I expected to find when I first looked for CoC on SRDC, there are no building records at all right now; we only have runs for half of the game.
I understand why it was not included at the start on SRDC as CoC was a very different game and difficult to restart back then, strictly 1 account per device, and long before Supercell ID and emulation instances came along. We now have a massive opportunity to change the mindset and attract new players.
It also negates the many pre-run inequalities, optimisations and manipulations which have created tensions within the games’ community, and made many players and ex-mods think speedrunning CoC is broken and unfair:
No need to buy gems, become tempted to use mods, or grind for years to get high level troops for Goblin Levels.
No need to create optimised/customised accounts, cup-drop, use modded private servers or search for hours to match with soft targets for Finish Battles
No need for multiple accounts or instances to engineer / organise a clan for 60%War
Rules – Upgrade Town Hall Any% Runs: Tutorial/TH2, TH3, TH4, TH5
1 Start a new game account and upgrade the Town Hall to the required level as quickly as possible. 2 Timing starts on the frame the player takes control on the “Hello Chief” screen. Timing ends on the first frame the required town hall level is visible on screen. 3 Paid-for Purchases of Gems or Special Offers etc; and purchasing gold and elixir with gems are banned. 4 Only earned in-game Gems from Removing Obstacles, Achievements, and the Gem Mine; and Gold and Elixir from Collectors, Mines, Multiplayer & Bonuses, Single Player and Practice Attacks are allowed. 5 Gem use for boosting barracks, finishing building upgrades, and finishing troop training is allowed. 6 Rebuilding and upgrading the Builder Base and Clan Castle are allowed, but creating or joining a Clan is banned. 7 Creating a Supercell ID, Linking to Google Play, Facebook or Supercell Friends, etc is banned as it could reveal personal information. 8 Runs which gave an unfair advantage during short-term special events, using temporary special troops, or any other special offers e.g. Anniversaries, Halloween, Xmas, 1 gem boosts, etc. are not allowed. No mods, hacks or private servers. Moderators’ decision is Final.
POSSIBLE SUB-CATEGORIES
Rules – Upgrade Town Hall 100% -runs: TH3, TH4 As any% except first line, remove “Builder Base” from line 6
1 Start a new account and upgrade the Town Hall to the required level as quickly as possible. All available buildings and troops must have started upgrades to their maximum available levels before the final Town Hall level is completed. Laboratory and Builder menus showing no upgrades available must be shown in video.
Rules – Upgrade TH AttackAny% Runs: TH3, TH4, (TH5?) As any% except first line, remove “Single Player and Practice Attacks” from line 4. (No TH5 = remove Builder Base from line 6)
1 Start a new account and upgrade the Town Hall to the required level as quickly as possible. Only Multiplayer attacks are allowed. All Single Player and Practice Attacks after the two completed during the tutorial are banned.
Notes:
Sorry #1 to the Moderators, I know you’re only used to checking sub-2m runs!
Sorry #2 that there is no TH5 video yet, I really want to try a run but it’s been personally difficult for me to find a long enough time window for a first attempt, never mind grinding trial runs to optimise the time.
For practical reasons the category must be limited to TH5. If you go any higher the run times would be impossibly excessive to record, upload and moderate as the upgrade times/available gems gradient becomes too steep. This will also exclude the Season Challenges and other new features which open at TH5, preventing the rules from getting too complex.
I expect UTH5Any% to take around 4 to 4 ½ hours to begin with, getting closer to 3 ½ when optimised. I have done it in a day several times in the past (when short of clan war numbers!), with about that amount of play time, but split over 3 or 4 sessions and taking breaks while upgrades ran down.
UTH5 100% opens builder base, which would just take too long, stop at TH4. UTH5 AttackAny% no idea! I personally would leave it off for now and see how the runs go...?
Tutorial/TH2 is always the same so it only needs to be in one category, if at all. It takes longer to setup a new instance than to run it. TBH it’s just pure execution, whoever can tap the fastest, but it is a nice short sub-2 m run if people wanted to keep shaving the .001ms. I could probably save a second or two just by playing on touchscreen instead of dragging a mouse, someone younger and twitchier will smash it!
Builder Base is definitely required to earn enough gems from obstacles and achievements to complete TH5, and also completes the category title as a part of the full game; so it must be included. However, it is unsuitable for its own separate records unless played without any gemming allowed, as players could easily manipulate the game e.g. stockpiling before rebuilding the boat. I don’t really see any popularity for in it in isolation if you have to start with zero gems or wait out all the upgrades.
If these requests are accepted I might try a few more runs to get UTH4Any% closer to my personal target of 25m, and maybe a th5 if I get a chance during the holidays, but I don’t intend to run the rest of the categories myself, I need a break from this one for now!
Oh ....... and finally, if you think I’m completely crazy or just greedy for more #1’s, then try and do it faster ;-) I have tried to set reasonably challenging times, but I know all these runs have plenty of errors and are beatable, let’s see who is good enough! CLASH ON!
Video links: Played on PC EMU: Windows 7/Bluestacks4/OBS Studio screen capture Timings@60 fps: https://somewes.com/frame-count/
#UTH2Any% 1m 57s 633ms
#UTH3Any% 8m 58s 133ms th2 split: 2m 05s 367ms
#UTH4Any% 26m 41s 933ms th2 split : 2m 02s 500ms th3 split : 11m 32s 833ms
#UTH5Any% TBC-4h?
