United States
SupporterNot bad :p Congrats on the new record! [btw you can upload runs without muted audio if you record them locally and upload them to YT]
sounds good to me. I can do a test run of this category on emu.
I've been meaning to contribute to this thread but I wanted to wait until I actually played through the game casually to enjoy the experiences it has to provide [it did not disappoint].
I feel the desire for proposing a glitchless category isn't coming from a place of not wanting to abuse certain mechanics, but rather a desire to have more of the game played [in most cases]. As such, perhaps a more practical approach that meets a form of middle ground would be something like an Any% No OoB or Any% NLE [No Levels Early]. This would allow the run to make use of glitches [such as infinite money and super jumps] and open the doors for creative routing such as in-area skips that don't involve going into the voids below the world of neopia.
Completionist runs would be pretty difficult to review/verify for the simple fact that this game doesn't display these statistics in a meaningful way [no in game % for example]. So the previously proposed cats by @SenatorArmstrong87 and @koarasenpai wouldn't really be viable [not to mention there are missable areas/treasures/quests].
I know this thread is pretty old but I figure a response like this is better late than never. I'd certainly consider hopping on the chance of giving this a shot myself [probably NLE] once I learn a bit more about the game from the speedrunning angle.
Yea I remember being a signalhead for this too LUL I Agree with Sonic though
Refresh rate isn't as important as limiting the actual game FPS to 60 which can be done with a framelimiter or through Nvidia control panel if you've got a card from them. You can set both to 60 if you want to feel safe though :)
I would like to state that adding a category extension board would be a great idea. I believe worrying about the difficulty aspect of category extension runs [outside of duology] would be simple enough with a new board addition separate from this one.
The argument about having empty sections in a leaderboard is totally valid. I believe with category extensions we can probably toss out the idea of having difficulty as an attribute to segregate by given that they are extensions. That's my opinion.
Duology is a special case since obviously if a run is being completed in one difficulty, then it should be expected that the difficulty remain the same between both games. This is the case with whether or not the run is standard or support as well [although this would be a good distinction for any category we introduce].
@Mehumies12 Sorry but If it really bothers you that much then you'll have to try and best it. That's simply the nature of speedrunning.
Responding to your points:
I went ahead and checked both OG LsV and Wii Klonoa and can confirm that collection preservation is not in those games. Even if there should be versions that HAVE it, it wouldn't pertain to this discussion much more than a simple talking point. PRS having it at all is a plus.
I understand the argument for empty leaderboards. Understandably, the inclusion of this category for both games would have to start with a few runs with more being completed over time. And even with this in mind, this category would likely still compare on the lower echelon in shadow of Any%. That's how it is on the original game leaderboards now, too. I don't think that undermines the value of the run, though.
Yea. The presence has a similar approach to 100%. It's basically the category minus the dreamstones requirement and would be a more friendly completionist category for new runners. I labeled it a gateway to 100% since it establishes a core foundation needed to take on 100%.
Ruleset looks about right to me. Before I took to the shape of all visions, I was more concerned about a category called "All Phantomilians/Dolls" where you just grab the dolls and beat the game without having to worry about the extra stages. In this light, the extra visions would be redundant since there are no phantomilians or dolls to collect in them. However, the point being made about the inclusion since the come about AS A RESULT of collecting them then shifted the focus for inclusion. And for the most part, I think that's fine and it works [difference in both would be time minus any time spent in extra visions].
I'm personally in favor for All Visions [who was the person that named the LsV categories Any% All Stages with a game that has VISIONS?] since: -> Thematically appropriate -> Arguably as simple as All Stages -> Every clear in the game is shown as: -> VISION CLEAR -> Rolls right off the tongue
Nudging my way in here to share some inputs on this forum:
The two main categories that the board is taking on right now for both pr1 and pr2 is Any% and 100%, with variants for both standard and support mode runs. But, what of the categories from the original games that had you clearing all levels without having to worry about gem count?
Naturally, there are pain points in both games 100% for getting not only all phantomilians and dolls respectively, but also getting the mininum of 150 gems for each stage [and as current WR holder for 100% on all difficulties for DtP Pr1 as of the time of this post, I would know.]. Well, I completed two runs to showcase DtP's All Visions category and LsV Any% All Stages categories respectively.
Door to Phantomile All Visions:
.
Lunatea's Veil Any% All Stages:
To simplify things, both are under the alias of "All Visions" since the label essentially embodies the same concept.
There are points I make towards the inclusion of this as a category for PRS: -> This is a category for completionists that don't want to bother with getting collectible that amount to nothing of a payoff [dreamstones]. Basically becomes a faster version of 100% as a result. Other games have a focus on beating the game while collecting things tied to a certain objective [Sly 1 All Keys, All Vaults, etc.] -> This category can be opened to use of Any% tricks [particularly death warps] as collection of phantomilians and dolls carries over death [gems sadly do not]. This is unique to KPRS since this preservation property is not in the original games. -> It pays homage to the category existing in the original games [as a result, why not include it as a category for the remake?]
In any case, this post is really meant to make a statement about All Visions and draw attention to the existence of these showcases [as rusty as they may be since my focus was to just get them done]. Unofficial as of now, but maybe with enough interest that can change. :)
This is correct. There is a category for PS3 submissions on the leaderboard. Were you wondering if it wasn't present or couldn't find it?
I noted that the current IL submissions on the leaderboards are for Any%. My argument for adding glitchless versions of ILs for Moon and Mines:
Moon: Having clean movement going through the ship and getting to the Moon Caves with Gizmo Mines: The section below the bottom 3rd floor takes precision to get through without stopping and no pesky mine skip.
Thoughts?
Okay. I looked over the document and basically got the idea to not impose any extreme settings that would create an unfair advantage. However, would I need to capture the game in windowed mode then? It's not super appealing to be streaming in this fashion. Maybe just verifying settings before or after run would suffice but looking for an answer on this.
Can DuckStation be used to run this game? I used to use ePSXe for emus but honestly I have an easier time using DuckStation and thinking about doing some runs for the game. Just want confirmation and if so, what configurations would be needed.
@muikula so what's the thought on this then? Can we declare a separate leaderboard for runs done on the easy difficulty for both main categories at this time? Reiterating the idea that these are not exclusive entirely of the regular categories as a whole [meaning an easy run can be posted on both its category AND easy extension]. If a volume is to be met to establish it, then I will point again to the example of the Sly Cooper Community only needing a small number of submissions to declare an extension. Either that or manual re-submission/flagging/inclusion of older runs done on Easy on the current boards to populate it [you may know if this is possible].
@muikula I'm for having both any% and glitchless boards having their easy difficulty runs separated. The idea of having the categories "extended" in this particular case means that runners that don't want to go the extra mile to master Extreme difficulty will have a board that's accessible and exclusive to them. This is to say they would be completely separate from the main boards which would remain intact.
Would likely go with the convention "Any% Easy" and "Glitchless Easy".
