Pennsylvania, USAWhat's going on yoshman?
Anyone got some Spatula RTA splits?
Why don't the rules just say only 1.6/1.7 is allowed since the other emulators are banned? Might confuse the odd ones that use a different emulator if its not said they can't use it.
The categories have very little runs / active runners as is, separating the leaderboards per platform would spread what little runs we have even more thin. Players can however use the filters.
I don't think 30 should be added, simply because it doesn't reach the end of the game.
Alaris, the majority didn't disagree against adding it though. At least not in this thread where the main discussion was supposed to take place, unless you're going off the all night shitposting about 22 star in the discord? This conversation has been far from one sided, if anything its leaning more towards misc rather than against it. But I'd say its pretty neutral
"as a mod I certainly don't want to get flooded with more and more runs to verify/reject of dumb categories that are done for fun."
Firstly, most people run any category for fun. Just because its been decided certain ones are "main" categories doesn't mean people don't run them for fun. Secondly, isn't the main argument against them that they will get no activity? Wouldn't you getting "flooded" with runs be a good thing, as people would be actively running the categories? The main argument against them was that they would be dead, so are you implying they will get activity if added? If so that just supports them being added even further. Also shouldn't you lean your opinion to what is better for the community, not what is easier for you pesonally? The mods here always claim to have "way too many mods", if this is the case 2 """dead""" categories shouldn't add to much to your heavy workload.
It seems to be at a bit of a stand still, the responses seem kind of equal in terms of supporting it or not supporting it. I'm personally against adding it as another game, just because they aren't main categories doesn't mean they aren't runs done on the same exact game as runs we currently have on the boards. People might cite other games doing it, but as mentioned many times we don't follow other games but rather the community.
By that logic 16 star is still any% with 16 extra stars. DDD skip is another variable to the run that makes it different.
Is this even true? I thought 1 star was an any% category before DDD skip was found? If this is the case, they are two different categories, and merging 1 star into 0 star would kill the accuracy of our any% category.
I agree with adding a misc tab. its causing no harm, its a small tab that will cause little clutter. I think having them on the boards will increase the popularity and possibly get people to start running them. It could also lead to someone perhaps making a routing guide for it, which would increase its popularity even more I think. It doesn't even have to be from people already running, remember we're on the front page of this website. People coming in from here will most likely only think of the categories we have and not on another website. They will also see that we feel the need to list them under misc, and respect our main categories still the same. When I check out other games, I don't think about categories they have with the times posted on some other website that I found in their resources.
Its a hard debate to move some of the things we already have on the leaderboards to the misc tab. Will all legacy categories be moved? If that's the case then that would mean not just 1 star but 16 star, which is our most ran category to my knowledge. Also what about 70? Its our 'no major skips' category, would that also be considered arbitrary compared to 100% and any%? Personally I think our current main tabs should stay, they will always outshine any misc category we have.
Bebop, as for what misc categories should be added I think it would be a good idea to start with 31 & 45 star for now. Moving onward, if runners think other categories should be added popularity and perhaps discussion could take place on if they should be added or not.
"Super Mario 64 is one of the largest, if not the largest competitive speedrun there is. Could be another Mario or maybe OoT, I haven't looked at the numbers... but this is besides the point.
My point above was that the majority of prying eyes are on this game. So by following through with this decision, more games will also follow suit with this games example. You can guarantee this. This is very bad."
Hypothetically if a change was made that benefited us I doubt any of us would give a damn what other communities try and do. Its their choice as a community how they set their rules, if what we do is better then its up to them to decide / discuss it like we're doing now. I don't see many games using our current system, if we changed to a more restricting one why would they go with that when they aren't even copying it now? Our leaderboards are actually different than the majority of other games, and I've yet to see any somewhat popular game mirror our leaderboards. If you look at the top three, SM64, SMS, and OOT we all have pretty different rules on our boards. Not too sure where you were going with this, but that statement just doesn't stand true at all.
I'm not trying to come at you directly by saying this, but if you aren't in the community and never plan to be why would you try and influence a game and community you aren't involved in / know little about? You seem to have gotten a bitter taste about our community from this thread, which I don't understand. This is a thread discussing the pros and cons of a leaderboard change, a thread that was rather organized and open to the entire community to give their thoughts on. Other communities either do what they think the community wants, or throws shit at eachother in their discord going in circles and not making progress.
This thread wasn't made to directly ban VC/Emu it was to discuss the pros and cons of the state of our leaderboards involving Emu/VC. Bebop listed his pros and cons, and it was discussed. As you've seen the communities spoken and are nearly at a complete agreement. I think this is how most big changes should go, not just for us but for other communities as well.
Strawpoll is bad for a variety of reasons, for one people could vote dirt easy with a proxy, secondly one could get their friends to vote in favor of what you agree with. Alaris mentioned name voting, but why do that when it can just be discussed here? Everyone giving their opinions in this thread is sort of like a vote, by seeing what the majority of the community wants. At this point I think its pretty obvious that things should remain the same, so why start voting on it?
OT: Toufool "we" believe optimizations based off of gameplay and not modern(compared to N64) hardware emulation. VC is very different from N64 as it doesn't involve lag reduction, and has poor controls. It also needs an adapter to use an original N64 controller which will further increase input lag.
Official doesn't mean a whole lot around here. Official emulation is still emulation, just because its officially made by Nintendo doesn't change that.
I gotta say I had pretty mixed feelings on this but saksdal really hit this one on the money. Its probably best to keep things as is.
I agree that adding a cap instead could be harmful as the N64 leaderboard would thus be inaccurate with Emu/VC times even if they are capped. Not too sure about the numbers, I'm pretty sure 16 star emu is the most popular category, but as we all should know most of the times are one and done times. Though, it would be sad to see people unable to submit due to lacking a console, or feeling demotivated to learn the game after hearing about it. Its touchy because its good for the N64 standard, but there are downsides to forcing one platform when we have ~3 available. Would be nice to hear other's opinions.
Couldn't the leaderboards be mixed, but a cap off at a certain time for emulator/VC times? This would allow players to still be able to submit their times, but once they wish to optimize their time further they would have to either not submit or switch to console to start competing. This would stop the con of runners not being able to deep their feet into the game, and it would also support the pro of players being encouraged to compete on N64.
I would say as of now though, players get the hint that no one cares about emu/vc times, and if they wish to compete they go N64. So why not give them the choice? If they wish to be on a board that no one cares about let them make that choice, if they wish to compete and have times people care about they can do that as well. I don't think it disencourages console play very much, and banning it would lose us a lot of runners.
