Hi guys,

I'm wondering why there is no "Hi Score Category" in the Leaderboard ?

Something about a nonsense from the game condition that I don't know ? The RNG maybe ? I love this game but I don't know how the game works. Moreover how the RNG is generated. Or perhaps no one has ever created a leaderboard for HS. Or simply because the website' name is Speedrun...:)

If someone can answer. It would be appreciate.

Tim

Not sure why, not many people run this game in general, so you're kinda the first person mentioning it. Would be cool as there are a few things you can do to increase your score like not missing enemies, collecting money, and shooting breakable objects for(very small amounts) of points.

I think the only RNG is boss actions and weapon upgrades/pop-gun.

I'd throw my hat it in if the leaderboard was there.

MCL

Thanks for your replie and opinion.

As far as I know, you can increase your score with what you mentionned indeed. In addition of that the game add some other points to your score. Such as the number of life remaining at the end.

I think you're right about the RNG. And a lot of speedrunned game include RNG (It is obvious in every game, but in a game like this, if the RNG is too important, it would be impossible to Highscored.) But let's say it's only the way you said.

I've noticed some level where you can make points without finishing the level. Always during the "Boss phase". Cause there is no timer in those phases. If you don't kill the main boss, you can keep on killing the others ennemies.

Like in the second level of the GoldMIne. There is two possibilities to avoid players to increase their score this way.

1. It is simply not allowed, but hard to find out if it's or not on purpose.

2. Creating Hi Score category pro level or series of level. (except those like the one mentionned before)

Does Any mod want to created that ?

Ah, I don't mind alternate categories as long as they produce decent runs. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense me to add a category where all runs will take 9 hours because people want to max out points. But, let me talk to either crack_atak or herpderp about it and we can figure it out. I'm not entirely opposed either as long as it creates runs that are decent. :)

Maybe before I speak to them, you could create a very concise idea of what you want the new category to entail? That way, at least then I know what I'm talking to them about. xD

Thanks to you JD.

I'm gonna try to define some rules.

So. Here it is:

• Game level : normal mode --> To choose one instead of the others (otherwise you'd have to create too many categories, Start with one and wel'll see)

-Version: US,EU,JP players choice. -->After a while everyone is going to play on the best one.

-The start: At the choice caracter like in the speedrun company. It is important to add a rule that doesn't allowed players to press the start button to pause the game. Also mentionned that you have to go as fast as possible through the menu's selection. The end is obviously when Kid is dead.

To avoid too long runs -->According to what I mentionned, In almost every boss fight the players can kill other enemies. Let's impose that: You have to kill every possible ennemies that appear on the screen. As far as it's possible. It's gonna be a bit hard to check every run. So we have to trust players.

-Dying is okay. Game over isn't ! --> You lose all you're point anyway.

To resume: I think it could give some good runs and great for a competition. Maybe not the funniest ever to watch. It'd be based one players sincerity. But it also the way the game is fun to play. Waiting to increase scores killing the same robot for 7 hours is fun killing. With the rules it is even not allowed.

The goal is simply to get the highest score.

I like to play this way and I'm sure I'm not the only one to try to break over the 3 000 000 000 points.

Thanks for reading

Tim

The hangup is what you mentioned where people can farm spawned enemies in boss fights. This could be remedied by having a 30 minute timecap or something but that seems rather arbitrary. Likely the highest score is gotten from using no special weapons which will add a challenge as well and along with a 30-min limit might be reasonable. Either way people will farm Kid for points which makes it tough to consider this as a category even though it would be really fun. An honor system may work.

Let's play with honor so.

The timecap is a good idea to start. We can start having some first rules and modified them if it's necessary.

As we said, the honor is the main rule. With the timecap it might work.

Mod's opinions would be great to hear now :)

So what happens when someone takes too long on spawned enemies in boss fights? I think the only thing I don't like about about an honor system is it will inadvertently create divide between submitted times. Say someone DOESN'T farm, is slower, and has more points than someone who does farm, has less points but is faster. How do you rank them against each other?

That's true. I already thought about that. It will create inequality. It's a fact. Even with a timecap. Even though the problem isn't completely solve with my idea. It will provide a rule that avoid people farming with or without purpose.

Kinda the way I already said: During the boss fight you are obliged to kill every ennemy on the screen. BUT the Boss first. As quickly as it's possible. You can kill spawned enemies as long as it helps you to kill the boss faster. But not to increase voluntarly your points.

Obviously if you're quick enough and skilled enough you won't have to kill a lot of spawned enemies. And you're going to lose some hundred's of points. But it's not significant compare to all the points you can score by playing well in the other part of the game. Such as Bonus game, levels and boss fight without spawned ennemies.

I think it's quite easy to spot a guy who play really well during the level making lots of points and playing really bad on boss fight to get points by killing spawned enemies.

I watched the video of a guy who pretends he has the world records. He scores 4'351'930pts. He doesn't farm during boss fight. Except for the second level of Gold Mine. Where you can easily see he could have killed the boss faster.

In my opinion it's much more significant playing well, fast, destroy every single pixel you can, never lose life (increase them is a good way to make a huge score), etc.., than trying to cheat by simuling your wickness by farming where you can.

But of course it's not as easy to judge than a real speedrun. And obviously not a clinic and mathematic yes or no.

What do you think ?

With extra lives being a huge bonus at the end, you are taking a sizable risk farming, especially on the latter boss fights. I feel like a 30 min. timecap solves the farming problem, which is only significant on 2 or 3 bosses. imo, a higher score with a slower time is still the higher score, therefore the better run.

Alright, sounds fair so far.

Is there a difference between easy/normal/hard mode for how scoring is done? I've only ever played hard mode and submitted a hard time (which I'll return to someday soon... I promise. xD)

I think I'm more in favour of a time cap, but I'm not sure technically if the high scores can be displayed by omitting time. Check out things like Wrecking Crew (26000 points) Tetris (300000 points) for example and how they do it on their boards. There's a set score (which is the category name) and then all results are sorted by time. What would a "good" score for this game be? Maybe 2 million or 3 million? Perhaps that could be the name of the category (and objective) and from then, endlessly farming doesn't matter because maintaining a good time will play a bigger role.

I don't think there is a difference for scoring per difficulty. I believe the speed of firing and boss health levels are the main differences(that's my guess anyway).

I know I've done 3 mil+, but I rarely pay much attention. I'm flexible with posting the runs, I don't really know the technical limitations of speedrun.com.

As far as I know, there is no scoring differnce between each mode. It's just easier to make a better score in easy mode than in hard mode. If you'd like to do it this way, with an objective of score. For example 3millions. It's gonna be technically impossible to determine when the score is achieve. Because you have to wait the end of the game and the last screen before the game displayed your score with your Bonus and Items from the last level. (It also add the life remaining points). It's not like Tetris where your score is directly shown. But the solution could sound like this: You have to finish the game as fast as it's possible with the more points you can get. And the board will be sorted by the highest score and the time spend. But it's gonna really looking like a speedrun.

I've just discovered one difference between hard,normal and easy mode points.

At the end, you've got a rank bonus that worth 700'000 in normal and 1M in hard mode

Ah, nice to know.

I'll try to setup something later, but I'm pretty sure (and please do explore) you can't sort by high score. I'm not sure if there's a way where individual scores can be displayed, but I think this is a caveat with speedrun.com.

So, yeah, as far as I can see there's no way to list a game by highscore, so that's definitely a caveat for this category. I tried to find comparable ideas on speedrun and there's nothing I've found that actually shows highscore.

So I think a workaround would have to be like they do in Tetris or other score-based games, and make the category the score objective and have to sort it by time. I'm not sure there's another way to do that (unless someone can find a board that displays high scores)? I did make a test category yesterday though to see, and I wasn't able to edit anything to have a column for scores, so I'm again under the assumption this isn't possible (?)

Thanks for your research Dave.

If it's definitly impossible to sort by score, let's sort the board by time but with a matter of the highest score. As you saw in the Tetris page. Let's put an objetcive of points and a timecap of 30min to finish the game with at least the objective of points achieve. This way you can sort it by time and the score at the end of the game.

Without farming points, it's hard to reach to about 3'500'000-3'800'000pts. To avoid farming, sorting by time is perfect. At the end of the game every one is going to have a score upper the fixed objective. Within a time below 30min. But the score is going to be different for every one. So, time is different and score is different.

Let's say it clearlier: You must finished the game below 30min with a minimum of 3'800'000. As Matthew said, a slower run with a highest score is still the better run. For exemple you: Making 4'000'000pts within 29minutes is better than making 3'900'000 in 28minutes.

What do you think ?