Comments
Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

I also think following "Game Time" is the way to go myself - I've found load times on the PS4 Slim to be noticeably slower than the regular PS4 (and certainly the PS4 Pro), so I think that keeps it just about as close to parity as we can hope for. I still think that including "Real Time" as a separate column on the leaderboards would be worthwhile, but the records would be based on Game Time.

As far as requiring runs to be tagged "Offic": that's more or less what I was thinking. I don't think there are appreciable differences between solo stroke play and playing multiplayer stroke play alone, but it introduces a variable that may or may not be impacting times. So might as well standardize it for all future runs to get that variable out of the mix. But for runs to this point that were submitted and otherwise followed the listed rules of the run (i.e. Charizard517's runs), I think we still consider them official with a note explaining that it's grandfathered in from the previously listed rules.

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

Of course, happy to help! I have professional video editing software through my job, so I figured it would be easiest and most precise for me to retime everything. But it did cause me some disappointment: I was excited thinking I barely beat your Alpina Forest record earlier today only to discover you short-changed yourself on your times and were actually 3 seconds ahead of me instead of 1 second behind, haha. Maybe next time!

As far as the suggested updates to the rules: I think the "Offic" tag makes it immediately clear when verifying that everything is as it should be with the settings, so I think it'd be good to impose as a rule from hereon out. It'll also make sure there aren't any load time differences between solo stroke play and multiplayer stroke play - there don't seem to be differences that I could see upon a cursory glance through runs (maybe a couple seconds but results were inconclusive), but might as well eliminate that variable just in case.

That said, I don't think Charizard517's runs themselves are actually different in play to the rest of the runs other than that. That's why I was hesitant to actually label them as illegal runs. Charizard517's runs did follow the rules that were in place when the runs were submitted, and the runs don't seem to be appreciably different from the "Offic" runs everybody else submitted.

So I was thinking that if we did make the rules updated, we could still count Charizard517's runs as verified with a note saying that it's grandfathered in since older rules didn't stipulate it had to be "Offic" when it was submitted and the runs are otherwise the same in setup as the rest of the runs. Thoughts?

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

So I went through all of the runs on the leaderboards and re-timed them all based on the revised rules I drafted here: https://www.speedrun.com/everybodys_golf/thread/1e3e6/. Hopefully this makes the runs as consistent with each other as possible.

~~ EAGLE CITY FULL COURSE

SparkyFish Real Time – 6:34.3667 Game Time – 6:22.2667

willisthepenguin Real Time – 6:45.1333 Game Time – 6:34.3333

ItzElite Real Time – 6:50.6000 Game Time – 6:39.5000

CR4ZYeyes ILLEGAL RUN - NO VIDEO PROOF

ThePickleman4 Real Time – 7:59.8333 Game Time – 7:48.7333

CAMfidence Real Time – 8:23.7167 Game Time – 8:15.3333

Dzuh Real Time – 8:36.5333 Game Time – 8:25.8333

DeanoThelasTofus Real Time – 9:26.0333 Game Time – 9:13.8333

Noraaborialis Real Time – 9:38.3000 Game Time – 9:25.9667

~~ ALPINA FOREST FULL COURSE

willisthepenguin Real Time – 6:46.9667 Game Time – 6:35.7667

ItzElite Real Time – 7:09.7000 Game Time – 6:52.8667

Charizard517 POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL RUN – “Unoff” marker pops up instead of “Offic” marker

CR4ZYeyes ILLEGAL RUN - NO VIDEO PROOF

DeanoThelasTofus Real Time – 9:17.3000 Game Time – 9:05.2333

~~ KANALOA BEACH FULL COURSE

willisthepenguin Real Time – 7:07.0000 Game Time – 6:53.5667

ItzElite Real Time – 7:20.8000 Game Time – 7:08.3667

Charizard517 POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL RUN – “Unoff” marker pops up instead of “Offic” marker

CR4ZYeyes ILLEGAL RUN - NO VIDEO PROOF

DeanoThelasTofus Real Time – 9:20.2000 Game Time – 9:06.4333

~~ VORTEX VALLEY FULL COURSE

willisthepenguin Real Time – 7:11.8667 Game Time – 6:57.9333

ItzElite Real Time – 7:14.6667 Game Time – 6:59.8667

CR4ZYeyes ILLEGAL RUN - NO VIDEO PROOF

~~ IMPERIAL GARDEN FULL COURSE

willisthepenguin Real Time – 7:28.9000 Game Time – 7:11.5667

ItzElite Real Time – 7:36.7667 Game Time – 7:19.8333

Novelgravy Real Time – 7:42.1000 Game Time – 7:27.9667

Charizard517 POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL RUN – “Unoff” marker pops up instead of “Offic” marker

~~ ALL COURSES

willisthepenguin Real Time – 43:23.9000 Game Time – 35:46.2000

ItzElite Real Time – 44:55.8000 Game Time – 38:14.1333

~~ ALL COURSES MIRRORED

willisthepenguin Real Time – 44:18.6667 Game Time – 36:12.4667

ItzElite Real Time – 44:28.6000 Game Time – 37:10.0333

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

Hey y'all! So if we want to make the runs more precise (particularly when run timers start and stop), I think it would make sense to revise the rules listed for each of the runs. Below are drafts of potential new rules we can use for the various categories (I included versions following both Real Time and Game Time depending on whether we plan to cut major load times out of runs or not).

Would love feedback on whether this looks good, any concerns/suggestions, and so on!

~~ FULL COURSE RUNS - PS4 (Real Time) Overview: Full Course runs need to be the full 18 holes of a course back-to-back. Runs in this category must be played on a PlayStation 4 (PS4) system.

Settings: The game must recognize a run as "Offic" or Official. This requires playing on solo stroke play and using normal or teeny cup size. Any other course settings such as tee location and time-of-day are allowed. Any clubs and balls, including custom clubs, are allowed.

Times: Time starts the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1, and time stops the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18.

~~ FULL COURSE RUNS - PS4 (Game Time) Overview: Full Course runs need to be the full 18 holes of a course back-to-back. Runs in this category must be played on a PlayStation 4 (PS4) system.

Settings: The game must recognize a run as "Offic" or Official. This requires playing on solo stroke play and using normal or teeny cup size. Any other course settings such as tee location and time-of-day are allowed. Any clubs and balls, including custom clubs, are allowed.

Times: Time starts the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1. Time is paused the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 9, and is resumed the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 10. The run is finished the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18.

~~ ALL COURSES - PS4 (Real Time) Overview: The courses to be completed are: Eagle City, Alpina Forest, Kanaloa Beach, Vortex Valley, and Imperial Garden. Players can complete the courses in any particular order, but they must be completed back-to-back. Runs in this category must be played on a PlayStation 4 (PS4) system.

Settings: The game must recognize a run as "Offic" or Official. This requires playing on solo stroke play and using normal or teeny cup size. In addition, the mirror setting must be set to "Off". Any other course settings such as tee location or time-of-day are allowed. Any clubs and balls, including custom clubs, are allowed.

Times: Time starts the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1 of the first course, and time stops the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18 of the last course.

~~ ALL COURSES - PS4 (Game Time) Overview: The courses to be completed are: Eagle City, Alpina Forest, Kanaloa Beach, Vortex Valley, and Imperial Garden. Players can complete the courses in any particular order, but they must be completed back-to-back. Runs in this category must be played on a PlayStation 4 (PS4) system.

Settings: The game must recognize a run as "Offic" or Official. This requires playing on solo stroke play and using normal or teeny cup size. In addition, the mirror setting must be set to "Off". Any other course settings such as tee location or time-of-day are allowed. Any clubs and balls, including custom clubs, are allowed.

Times: For each course, time starts the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1. Time is paused the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 9, and is resumed the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 10. Time is paused again the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18, and time resumes the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1 of the next course. The run is finished the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18 of the last course.

~~ ALL COURSES MIRRORED - PS4 (Real Time) Overview: The courses to be completed are: Eagle City, Alpina Forest, Kanaloa Beach, Vortex Valley, and Imperial Garden. Players can complete the courses in any particular order, but they must be completed back-to-back. Runs in this category must be played on a PlayStation 4 (PS4) system.

Settings: The game must recognize a run as "Offic" or Official. This requires playing on solo stroke play and using normal or teeny cup size. In addition, the mirror setting must be set to "On". Any other course settings such as tee location or time-of-day are allowed. Any clubs and balls, including custom clubs, are allowed.

Times: Time starts the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1 of the first course, and time stops the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18 of the last course.

~~ ALL COURSES MIRRORED - PS4 (Game Time) Overview: The courses to be completed are: Eagle City, Alpina Forest, Kanaloa Beach, Vortex Valley, and Imperial Garden. Players can complete the courses in any particular order, but they must be completed back-to-back. Runs in this category must be played on a PlayStation 4 (PS4) system.

Settings: The game must recognize a run as "Offic" or Official. This requires playing on solo stroke play and using normal or teeny cup size. In addition, the mirror setting must be set to "On". Any other course settings such as tee location or time-of-day are allowed. Any clubs and balls, including custom clubs, are allowed.

Times: For each course, time starts the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1. Time is paused the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 9, and is resumed the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 10. Time is paused again the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18, and time resumes the first frame the player character can be controlled for hole 1 of the next course. The run is finished the first frame the "Offic" marker appears after completing hole 18 of the last course.

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

I don't like having records by default, it just feels wrong. So I think I'll just play using my PS4 for now so it's more of an equal competition (plus I just like the idea of competing with others to raise all of our skills together).

That said, if we allow PS5 runs, then separate categories works for me! If we do that, I'll re-submit my PS5 runs to the new category at that time.

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

Edit: You are absolutely 100% correct! I just coincidentally had the run of my life on Eagle City G.C. while playing on the PS4 Slim (which should be the worst possible hardware that can play Everybody's Golf) for the test and it still came out 30 seconds worse than my imperfect PS5 run. That's no good.

I think with a small community it's important to make sure it's as level a playing field as possible, so perhaps we only consider PS4 runs official? Maybe at a future date we consider changing that once PS5s are more common, but for now it just seems rather classist of me to flaunt WR times assisted by better hardware.

(As a note, the video I made still cuts out load times between holes 9-10. Given there are different types of PS4s, it's still probably best in my opinion that we do that to keep runs as close to parity as possible.)

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

Whether you're on PS4 or PS5, there won't be /huge/ differences in times for individual courses it seems (about 6 or so seconds faster overall on PS5). On the flip side, there's a huge amount of load times saved for the "All Courses" runs when playing on PS5 versus PS4.

No matter what, the time differences between PS4 and PS5 are eliminated if we decide to follow either of my suggestions for new ways to count run times.

I'm personally a fan of idea 2 just because that by itself eliminates the actual unfair load time differences between PS4 and PS5. Idea 1 seems overkill as it would take far longer to verify times, plus it would modify times beyond just console differences which doesn't really jive with what a speedrun is supposed to be in my opinion.

Regardless, I'm happy to help re-time runs no matter how we decide to move forward!

Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

I was wondering this myself! Separate categories probably don't make sense, but there's gotta be a way to make it more even. Here are the two ideas I had that should even out the playing field.

Idea 1: Cut all non-course time Rules:

  • Time starts the first frame of a hole that a player character can be moved
  • Time is paused the first frame the "Offic" marker pops up after completing each hole
  • Time is resumed the first frame of the next hole that a player character can be moved
  • The run is finished once the "Offic" marker pops up after completing the final hole of the run
  • For "All Courses" runs, time is paused once the "Offic" marker pops up after completing the final hole of a course, and is resumed the first frame the player character can be moved in the first hole of the next course Pros: It would be an exact representation of the time it takes a player to go from start to finish of each hole. It would also bypass chip-in replays, which punish chip-in shots below par by forcing a replay (this may or may not be desirable though). Cons: This would take a lot of time since every single hole would have to be frame-by-frame verified. It might not even be necessary, as there doesn't seem to be any differences in time between the PS4 and PS5 between holes 1-9 and 10-18. Plus it would bypass chip-in replays, which may or may not be what we want to do given the goal is to finish as fast as possible.

Idea 2: Cut only major loading spots Rules:

  • Time starts the first frame of the first hole of a course that a player character can be moved
  • Time is paused the first frame the "Offic" marker pops up after completing hole 9
  • Time is resumed the first frame of hole 10 that a player character can be moved
  • The run is finished once the "Offic" marker pops up after completing the final hole of the run
  • For "All Courses" runs, time is paused once the "Offic" marker pops up after completing the final hole of a course, and is resumed the first frame the player character can be moved in the first hole of the next course Pros: It would be far quicker to verify times this way versus idea 1 while still removing all load time differences between PS4 and PS5. Far easier to follow as a runner during a run since you don't have to constantly stop and restart timers over and over. Cons: Chip-in replays remain punishing outside of holes 9 and 18 (since time is stopped the first frame the "Offic" marker pops up for those holes). This might not be a bad thing, but it is something to keep in mind.
Michigan, USASparkyFish3 years ago

Hello! Is there any way new full course categories for each of the DLC courses could be opened up? There are 5 total:

1: Green C.C. 2: Balata C.C. 3: Nam Rong Bay C.C. 4: Pine Hills G.C. 5: Akigase Keikoku C.C.

It doesn't seem like there are a lot of runners, but I love any reason I can get to keep playing the game and improving. So adding DLC categories would be great!

(P.S.: The last non-DLC course is called Imperial Garden, not Imperial Valley as it's listed in the categories. Not a big deal at all but figured I'd put that out there.)

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