Forums  /  The Site  /  Ability to submit 0sec runs on Ingame Time
  _SS_SS

In one or two categories in Seterra Speedrunning, it is possible to get a 0 second run according to the Ingame Timer, and as all other runs are submitted according to this, allowing you to submit 0sec runs as well would be very helpful.

BattleMasterBattleMaster and Otterstone_GamerOtterstone_Gamer like this. 
  LivLiv

This seems like it'd be supporting flawed in-game timers more than anything to me.

Even if the IGT reads back 0 seconds, it isn't actually 0 seconds. The IGT simply isn't precise enough, and those runs should be re-timed over just appointing 0 seconds to them as if the gameplay took zero time.

NightcatNightcat, ImaproshamanImaproshaman and 4 others like this. 
  TimmiluvsTimmiluvs

I agree with Liv. It seems like this is more of a flawed use of IGT rather than a use case for enhancing the LBs.

If the IGT precise enough to handle it, it sounds like you should switch to RTA timing to compensate for the speed at which the category can be completed.

 
  SaradocSaradoc

"Even if the IGT reads back 0 seconds, it isn't actually 0 seconds. The IGT simply isn't precise enough, and those runs should be re-timed over just appointing 0 seconds to them as if the gameplay took zero time."

https:/​/​www.​speedrun.​com/​Minesweeper/​run/​9me4xo2y

 
  LivLiv

@i_o_li_o_l

The run obviously took some time. Just because a run took less than a second, doesn't mean the time is flat out zero. The site does accept 0 seconds with milliseconds added on, as it should be. If below a second is possible, then mods should be accounting for that by utilizing milliseconds. If you're relying on in-game timers, it goes back to:

"This seems like it'd be supporting flawed in-game timers more than anything to me."

ImaproshamanImaproshaman and Silo_SimonSilo_Simon like this. 
  SaradocSaradoc

No, it didn't really. Time starts as you release the mouse button and it ends as you solve the board. Both things happen in the same frame. Do you want to look how many processor cycles it took between the processor registering the mouse button release and registering that the game is solved? And either way should any game be forced to switch to real time the moment 0 seconds becomes possible in any category? I don't know why you think this is such an egregious case, when all ingame timers are flawed in some way.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman and 6oliath6oliath like this. 
  6oliath6oliath

The issue is based on how the site treats 0 values as null values. Not an easy fix, certainly.

I'm sure the game mods for categories/games that can have legitimate 0second runs might be better off finding a creative workaround for now, one that suits the game as much as possible.

 
  DaravaeDaravae

@i_o_li_o_l I mean, yes? Ofcourse a community should consider RTA at the moment where they allow 0 second submissions on the board, but that is on the moderators and community operating the boards, not a side-wide issue. You also cannot force boards to use RTA timings automatically as a function on the site when dealing with 0 second submissions, because there might be games who do track millisecond timings in IGT and are therefor able to have accurate submissions.

The reason why its not possible to create a 0 second submission, is because it is literally impossible to perform a 0 second submission since even a processor cycle or 1 frame is not 0 seconds. Its always something in milliseconds.

The problem is like Liv already pointed out is a flawed IGT timer that in probably most cases does not read out these precise millisecond values, usually only displaying plain hours/minutes/seconds. That is why leaderboards who track these kind of runs should reconsider retiming these runs.

For moderators and leaderboards who do allow 0 second submissions, I have seen workarounds like:
"Lets add 1 second/millisecond/microsecond/ to a 0 second submission and not retime anything because we use IGT" This is simply a wrong mindset and ends up showing multiple incorrect submissions on a board in the end.
Another problem is that when video proof becomes unavailable for these specific submissions, you are basically stuck with a submission with an incorrect time that has not been retimed either.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman and Silo_SimonSilo_Simon like this.