Forums  /  The Site  /  My opinions on the new changes
  DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres

Before this starts I want to say, this is my personal opinion as someone who has a more inside look at the system then most people. It's not something I was told to say (since some people have thought that in the past.) It's just my thoughts on the recent changes and the changes to come.

ELO does a good job with listening to what the community wants, and it was/is a big project taking on a new site like SR.C. I was a C Mod before ELO took over, and I can honestly say that there has been more community changes since ELO came into the scene then when it was just Pac doing things.

People don't seem to understand that stuff like this takes time, and while yes, the monetization stuff is something that is happening first, there will still be community suggested updates and community betterment updates coming out in the future. Back when it was just Pac working on the site people would be waiting months for QOL updates and they never knew which update would come next, but there was never any complaints about it until someone else took over.

And to people who say that the community has no say in what happens anymore I say this. Send me a DM, send any C or F Mod a DM about concerns you have if you feel they need to be heard directly. It's one of the main reasons we volunteer with the site, is because we care about the community.

That being said, I don't agree with the people saying ELO is in it "just for the money" because I've talked with members of ELO directly and can see that they want to learn more about the community they entered and be able to understand what people want to see change, it's just a big process that can take a bit of time to do.

Anyway that's my small rant about things, hope it doesn't come off as hostile to anyone as I in no way meant it to be, just hope that this will help some people understand that these things take time.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, frenchfrench and 18 others like this. 
  Merl_Merl_

People are really ignoring all of the things elo added in the update because they don't like the ads. Yeah, the ads suck. But they added a bunch of other stuff in the recent update, too, a lot of which are features that I have seen requested since I have been actively reading site forums. I'm upset that the one bad thing is ruining an otherwise very good update.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, QuivicoQuivico and 5 others like this. 
  DelekatesDelekates

Would say much water. Still doesn't explain why big company can't make proper communication with the community.
Before was before, Pac did amazing job working and then passing on the web (selling), can't say better honestly.
He found actually good group of caring people and they look like caring group. I was really happy with all changes that were made bedore last update, then they make such big change without any preparation.
This really feels off, misleading, no respect. How did they end up with this decision? Can only wait for proper explanation.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman likes this. 
  GarshGarsh

I agree with @Merl_Merl_, if the things they said in then news post are true (I don’t have reason to believe that they’re not) then there’s going to be some wonderful features coming very soon and it’s really going to be beneficial to the site. Although like everyone else, I really despise the ads because it just makes the entire site look ugly. But luckily, Adblock exists. Overall, as long as Adblock is still allowed, I really like the new update.

IvoryIvory, O.D.W.O.D.W. and 2 others like this. 
  Merl_Merl_
(edited: )

There's also a CSS to remove the weird spacing
https://hatebin.com/zqrmeupnhv

with adblock on, this looks exactly like normal

 
  DaravaeDaravae
(edited: )

To me this looks like a pretty poor effort at creating a separate and different business (profit) model for speedrun.com and simply riding the business models of other sites that Elo owns like Dotabuff and Overbuff. If you go to either of these sites right now, you can see they operate completely similar in terms of ads and how they are displayed. Personally already realized it would only be a matter of time before speedrun.com would end up like this too when the PM announced at the beginning of the site transfer that they would release their ad program over the site in the near future. I really really dislike how a lot of corpo's think about these sorts of strategies nowadays. To me it feels like straight up pissing off an entire user base which consists of well over hundreds of thousands of users that have been around much longer than a corpo has and the user base that they only recently inherited is worth it when it brings in good profit. Don't get me wrong, I understand to a degree. This site has to become profitable when its owned by a corpo, and yes, everyone is going to be pleased with new moderator options but please, for the love of god, this way of making this site profitable is not it. This site is NOT a Dotabuff, not an Overbuff. This is speedrun.com. People here are not interested in game statistics. Listen to the communities and users here, and stick to your promises that you made on the 13th of October on Twitter Sabina. You were going to earn the trust of the community and so far you are not doing a good job.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, MASHMASH and 30 others like this. 
  MrMonshMrMonsh
(edited: )

The main issue here is transparency. If we had even the slightest glimpse of an idea of what ELO plans to do with the site in the future, people would probably not react so strongly when faced with these sort of big updates that come seemingly out of nowhere.

• The new widget bar layout for the main page was completely unexpected for everyone and completely changed the flow of information there (while also breaking a few things here and there at first, may I add), so people were rightfully shocked.
• The user profile layout change was similar in nature, except this time people actually wanted a rollback due to not wanting the news in the user profiles.
• The new ads also came from one moment to the next, with only as much as a one sentence acknowledgement in the latest news from this patch (so again, no preview). To make things worse, it's also in this process that they made the layout for 95% of the site (excluding the main page and user profile) very confusing and misaligned.

So what's the bottom line here? Should they stop pushing for big updates?

No, don't be silly. Of course we want updates.

However, by not getting more involved and getting in touch with the community themselves (rather than through C-mods and F-mods, which in contrast are awesome at this) they are continually shooting themselves on the foot. With a rocket launcher.

Yes, it's possible some users here might be a bit more riled up than they should be, but at this point ELO is kinda enabling it. They already have the tools to appease concerns through these forums and through the news, so they just need to appoint someone from PR and make a post every once in a while.

Where are we headed? What bugs/features are you currently looking into? Do you plan to roll out any other big updates we might want to take a look at before releasing it? It's anyone's guess at this point if you guys don't tell us.

PS: On that note, I really like that at least the moderation tools have a sneak peak, so at least that seems to go in the right direction, but we still need more in that regard. Baby steps I guess.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, NotTheJohnNotTheJohn and 12 others like this. 
  KrayzarKrayzar

It's 2021. If an ad can change and disturb the page layout enough that the entire site moves down, you're doing something very wrong. I'm fine with the ads, but stuff like this is amateurish and rightfully gives the new management a black eye.

Start course correcting now. Start fixing stuff like this and communicating better. Start taking changes seriously, or there will eventually be a better run competitor that will make it it's goal to run SRC into the ground. SRC is a monolith because of low barrier to entry, not because it can't be replicated, and you're actively damaging that reputation.

I like the new management and the general direction - don't start digging your graves now.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, MiPMiP and 12 others like this. 
  Kai.Kai.

"top 10 most toxic gaming communities"

are you guys gonna get better ads? thats my only problem

anyways, i love this update rather than that

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, GarshGarsh and Bob-chickenBob-chicken like this. 
  hivemind514hivemind514

The problem i have with ads is that ELO first changed the layout of the site (making it worse imo) and then they put ads in the most noticable place possible in the new layout. And not just some simple promoted material, or something that fits the site design, no it has to be annoying auto-play video that pops out to the edge of the screen when you scroll past it. It reminds me of fextralife putting their own stream on autoplay on all of their wikis to boost viewcount, which to me just screams greed and zero care for your community.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, MiPMiP and 5 others like this. 
  BulletsBullets

Updates are happening more, and I appreciate some of the future updates that seem to be in the works, but the current ones have made a lot of questionable changes that just feel awkward. I'm still a bit baffled by the user profile changes, even if I'm hopeful for future things.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman and IvoryIvory like this. 
  LivLiv
(edited: )

The large blank space at the top seems to be gone for me now.

After turning off adblock the thing that does feel a tad excessive is the autoplaying video. Surely there has to be a better way to do that. People got annoyed at an autoplaying Twitch VOD on just the front page before, but adblock being off essentially emulates that experience on every page currently.

Edit: And like I know Pac didn't give ELO feedback on absolutely everything imaginable, and I cannot remember if the autoplaying embed video ads existed back when he was the webmaster due to ads being disabled for users logged in, but these embed video ads existing, right now, is effectively nullifying all critique given in the past about the website regarding those once forced GSA front page streams; they take up bandwidth and are just in general extremely annoying, even moreso than just the standard ads. Regardless of whether you can adblock them or not, they simply should not exist on the website.

Regarding the fact of ELO acknowledging feedback, they should definitely look into someone that directly handles PR and interacts on the website. You guys are obviously free to put forward your own view even if they're directly supporting ELO without people claiming it's any of bias and it's nice to see you guys care enough to respond, but at the same time it's also not your responsibility to feel like you need to reenforce decisions made by ELO if this were ever the case. The irritating thing right now, is the only direct communication between us and them, ignoring the feedback form because they'll only respond back if they feel like it at the end of the day, is a bunch of news posts and that is it. There needs to be someone in the middle we can talk to, (not Site Mods who aren't even making these decisions in the first place and are merely having to step in and explain to lessen user outrage, which they shouldn't have to do to begin with), and instead someone who can ask ELO and bring forward details officially, but also allow a dialog to be opened at the same time. The community is very important on here, and by mistreating it by not communicating properly with it... you're only going to get people more and more angry.

(And there's the form you can use to request to become a tester for features and stuff, but at the same time if something is an extremely poor idea, I don't feel like these methods are necessarily the best way of getting feedback. Someone is less likely to be critical on the spot if they're in a 1 on 1 situation or in direct 1 on 1 communication. Testing the features for bugs? Absolutely. Getting a honest opinion out of someone on if it's even a good idea to begin with? Less so.)

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, MASHMASH and 11 others like this. 
  DaravaeDaravae

Thank you Liv.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, Oreo321Oreo321 and O.D.W.O.D.W. like this. 
  [user deleted]

This thread you made isn't really an opinion but looks nothing more than a damage-control post. So I'm gonna point out everything wrong here.

"ELO does a good job with listening to what the community wants, and it was/is a big project taking on a new site like SR.C. I was a C Mod before ELO took over, and I can honestly say that there has been more community changes since ELO came into the scene then when it was just Pac doing things."

If they did that, then why didn't they remove all the forced articles in our face that a lot of people were complaining about? Now I'm hearing of 'Watchmojo' videos on the site. Pac was 1 guy, of course there is gonna be more changes with a group. I never thought SR.C was ever perfect, but it was half decent for a site that had very few people working on it compared to now.

"People don't seem to understand that stuff like this takes time, and while yes, the monetization stuff is something that is happening first, there will still be community suggested updates and community betterment updates coming out in the future. Back when it was just Pac working on the site people would be waiting months for QOL updates and they never knew which update would come next, but there was never any complaints about it until someone else took over."

I donated to the site, I feel entitled to have ads removed and all the features unlocked I paid for. Again, it was ONE guy working on the site along with other possible things he might have had going on IRL (I've never spoken to Pac personally, I don't know what he does, but I imagine he has a life like the rest of us do).

"And to people who say that the community has no say in what happens anymore I say this. Send me a DM, send any C or F Mod a DM about concerns you have if you feel they need to be heard directly. It's one of the main reasons we volunteer with the site, is because we care about the community."

I already did send in a feedback via Google Forms, but absolutely no reply nor anything was done whatsoever. https://twitter.com/speedruncom/status/1364669655806185476

So no, I don't think you actually care. Honesty is something you don't have, but then again, why am I surprised? Almost every 'bigger' corpo always lies to us.

"That being said, I don't agree with the people saying ELO is in it "just for the money" because I've talked with members of ELO directly and can see that they want to learn more about the community they entered and be able to understand what people want to see change, it's just a big process that can take a bit of time to do.

Well Watchmojo is paying you to have videos on the site, if they weren't paying you why do you have their shitty videos on the site then? You all just don't care. We're not stupid to realize this. I'm deleting my account after tonight, I'm done with these big corpos treating us like cattle, just like our politicians do.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, NotTheJohnNotTheJohn and DelekatesDelekates like this. 
  StarlightStarlight

I think they should get involved with the community a bit more, but the changes they’ve been making are ok. All the moderation tools coming soon are ones some of us have wanted for a while now. Ads aren’t great, but I know why they do it and I’m ok with that.

I wasn’t really around much when Pac was here, so I can’t make any comparisons but I think for now they are doing ok but could be better if they actually connected with the community more.

MrMonshMrMonsh likes this. 
  DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres

The "forced articles" were a news section that they wanted to incorporate as a way of sharing speedrunning news with the community, yes it got a lot of hate, but it also got a lot of support. People just always seem to focus on the hate since the people who hate seem to be more outgoing about it.
And where did you hear of "watchmojo videos" coming onto the site? It's not something I've heard of.

I also donated to the site before becoming a mod, and it had nothing to do with the removal of ads when I did it, it was simply to supply money and support to a guy who made a website I used almost daily. the ads never really effected or bothered me since 99% of sites have ads, and it's just something to expect when using the internet.

That was something where they did not respond to everyone, unfortunately you were one of the people who they did not respond to. But there were other people who submit to that thread and they did get responses. But also, that was not something done by the mods, it was done by devs to get feedback on the site.

"So no, I don't think you actually care. Honesty is something you don't have"
I actually am hurt by this message, because I've always tried to be as honest as I can be, and even when I specifically say that these are my own thoughts, people still think I'm just pushing out whatever I'm told to say. You say every big corp lies to us, but I'm not a part of ELO, I'm just a guy who volunteers to help out on the site. I'm just another user who happens to have a fancy badge next to my name.

And yes, obviously they added ads for money, why else would they have added them? But it's not all "for the money." They added the ads so they could get more revenue and hire people to help them with the site. Right now all the site mods are volunteer positions. They made a paid position for the site, full time. How else do you expect for them to be able to pay for that then by monetizing the site a little bit?

Again, I don't want to come off as hostile, I'm just defending my point that ELO is doing a good job, but too many people are focusing on the negatives to realize it.

MrMonshMrMonsh, StarlightStarlight and 2 others like this. 
  [user deleted]
(edited: )

Those articles only 'supposedly' helped because the site forced them on everyone's face. There's not even an option to turn them off, it's pathetic. The simple thing people want is choice and we are not getting it and STILL haven't gotten it and probably won't get it.

So you're totally A-OK with initially paying money, then having ads? I'm convinced you're reading off a script or you don't want ELO to give you a word. Either one, can't say it's true, but I'm still convinced.

Okay, then show me examples of things they HAVE replied to. I haven't seen any replies from the main staff in that now-locked feedback thread.

I mean did you expect anything else from someone who consistently defended the site for years? Every big corp does lie to us. And I mean, you decided to volunteer, did you also not expect to have to deal with someone who is clearly frustrated about the direction the site has gone to? ELO has been dishonest with us. I knew the site would eventually go down this monetization road when they bought the site, sad I was right. ELO is not doing a good job, there's more amount of people frustrated with the site than actually thinking it's going right. It's not.

And you all are putting Watchmojo videos on here, and you even still have it on when scrolling down:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/683753444938612752/832412607084232714/unknown.png

AND there was even one playing under your post.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/683753444938612752/832413324293308436/unknown.png

Again, I'm deleting my account after tonight. I'm done for good.

NotTheJohnNotTheJohn likes this. 
  StarlightStarlight

@30Cents30Cents

As @DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres said before you should focus on the positives rather then the negatives, and I would recommend you didn’t leave. However I can’t stop you, so if you do then goodbye.

 
  KrayzarKrayzar
(edited: )

I mean no disrespect @DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres and @StarlightStarlight, but clearly the fact that you feel the need to jump in here and explain in ELO's place DOES mean that they have failed significantly in this instance.

We as users and invested parties have the right to hold them accountable for misteps and sub par communication.

ELO also needs to understand that SRC is a monolith that could easily topple and be replaced with a few badly placed mistakes and miscommunications. There is no special love or loyalty for the site. Speedrunning has existed long before SRC and will exist after it, should they fail here.

They are the ones that are expendable to us, simply put.

EDIT: Oh and I actually really like the news articles by the way! Felt there should have been a community news section for a long time. That's one thing they've done very right IMO.

DelekatesDelekates, StarlightStarlight and Merl_Merl_ like this. 
  KomradeKomrade

Yeah I'm not sure why you'd try to defend changes that negatively impact what is just a conglomerate of leaderboards and vastly different communities. SRC isn't exactly providing a service for us, it's the other way around, really. If the more dedicated communities get tired of dealing with negative changes they'll likely leave. elo.io was never going to buy SRC without a return on their investment, so slapping ads on it was inevitable, and I'm sure various forms of subscriptions and/or paywalls are in the pipe as well.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman likes this.