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  HabrenoHabreno

@BattleCatBattleCat From what I can see, that would fall under the Oculus Rift (shown as Rift), which is already on the game.

 
  TenkaTenka

@Habreno no Oculus Quest is an entirely new platform from Oculus, completely different from the Rift.

It is a standalone VR Platform which does not connect to the PC and has different performance specs, including tracking technology and framerate. They are porting a lot of the PC VR games to the Quest, but they are ports and will likely have some kind of performance adjustments .. for better or worse.

There may even be some amount of games being made exclusive to the Quest (although I haven't heard of any as of yet). Calling the Quest the "Oculus Rift" would be the similar to calling a "Nintendo Switch" a "Wii U".

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  DangerlessDangerless

It would help if some of you guys provided some sources because it seems to fall under as a more "sub-product" of well the Oculus itself and the wiki information on it seems real vague stating what exactly it is aside of being a new product....it doesn't really say if its an extension of the old platform or what.

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  TenkaTenka

I guess the problem here is the definition of the word "Platform". Since aside from PSVR, the definition of what constitutes a differing VR platform has been a combonation of Hardware (Vive vs Rift) and operating system software (Oculus Home vs SteamVR).

If you were strictly looking at it on a Hardware basis then Quest is clearly a different platform as it is an entirely new Device with entirely different specifications. But maybe it is a little more of a grey area if you consider it the same operating system. The problem is that Hardware in VR counts for more than just "computational performance" ... it also factors in Tracking fidelity and Distance (which can and does effect speedruns in a major way).

The biggest differences between the standard Oculus Rift and the Quest are:

Rift:

- PC VR - Computational performance is aided by the strength of the PC you are running on. Framerate capped at 90hz.
-Tethered. - Movement is restricted based on a certain range to your PC.
-Uses Outside in Tracking - Uses external sensors to track the movement of your hands and your spacial movement. Generally superior because you will be able to track your hands no matter how you place them around your body (for the most part).

Quest:

- Standalone VR - Fixed computational performance, the headset itself "IS the PC", so no PC required. Essentially the equivalent of a "VR Console". Framerate capped at 72hz.
- Completely Untethered/wireless - basically have an infinite play-space to work with. If you can find a football field to play in you can basically go Jogging in VR, allowing you to pretty much break all of the limitations of what is capable in the Rift. In speedrunning this can be anything from moving to a critical in-game component faster to possibly just walking out of bounds, depending on the game.
- Inside-Out tracking - Uses internal sensors to track the movement of your hands and is limited to a range roughly within your FOV. This means if you put your hands behind you, they lose tracking. Though Quest does aparently do a very good job of counteracting this with "mathematical estimation", I can think of a number of speedrun tricks I have done which could possibly not work on the Quest due to this issue (I have still yet to receive my Quest, and that particular game is not ported yet, so I haven't tested it.)

Here's an article comparing the Rift to the Quest: https://www.​digitaltrends.​com/virtual-reality/oculus-quest-vs-oculus-rift/

Heres an article that has a nice table showing differences in hardware, note that this one compares to the new "Rift S". However the Rift S is probably better described as a "sub-product of Rift" as you are saying, so it might still be a relavent comparison: https://www.​pcmag.​com/compare/368050/oculus-quest-vs-oculus-rift-s-which-vr-headset-should-you

Heres an article showing some of the "visual downgrades" on the games that needed to be done to port them to the Quest due to the differences in hardware performance:
https://uploadvr.​com/quest-rift-games-comparison/

 
  DangerlessDangerless

Okay, but what about the literal platform itself? Every PC and Phone get updated parts/re-releases all the time otherwise we'd be here adding all that too. Nothing in your post says anything about the literal platform itself.

Is it going to have exclusive games that only work on this thing? Because it kinda reminds me of the Nintendo DS and Nintendo DSi, the latter did have a few games that only worked on the DSi....but it was a different platform. This seems to be the barrier since no one has said anything about the games other than mentioning ports.

 
  TenkaTenka

My concern so far has been mainly for the hardware side of the platform playing a distinguishing role since games could potentially run very differently on it, even if they are the same or similar ported games from PC. I don't know if there are going to be any games exclusive to the Quest, but there easily could be. For a game to be playable on Quest, dev's need to make a version of the game specifically for it. It's entirely possible that a developer may opt to make an exclusive or timed exclusive if they can't spare the manpower to develop the PC version simultaneously.

Currently, only the reverse is true as far as I know .. there are only a select few games currently ported to the Quest and there is probably going to be many games that are never going to be available on it.

I'm not sure why what games are available has to be the only defining factor though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't every PS4 game run on both PS4 and PS4Pro? .. if that's the case then why does a PS4Pro platform exist on the site? .. The difference between Oculus Rift and Oculus Quest is far greater than that.

 
  DangerlessDangerless

We'll wait off on this addition at this time. I wouldn't also mind hearing some input from the moderators of Supershot VR.

 
  BeanBean

Hey, SUPERHOT VR mod here!

The Oculus Quest is absolutely a separate device that should get its own listing. It's like the difference between 3DS and Wii U honestly. Sure, there are games in common like Super Smash Bros, but they're easily different enough to separate. Many alike ports even are given different names, like "Robo Recall" on the Rift versus "Robo Recall: Unplugged" on the Quest. Like Tenka said, they often have to be changed because of the vast differences of hardware (mobile GPU vs monster PCs), so it's definitely significant.

Games on the Quest have to be specifically set up for the Quest, are designed in terms of user experience and software based around the specifics of the Quest, and are sold on a store that distinguishes between Quest and Rift games. https://www.​oculus.​com/experiences/rift/ versus https://www.​oculus.​com/experiences/quest/

There are even games that are Quest only, such as Vader Immortal: https://www.​oculus.​com/experiences/quest/2108775495884888

There is no real basis of claiming the Quest to be "close enough" to the Rift for it to not deserve its own category. It is very much a new, distinct system.

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  TenkaTenka

Thanks @Bean

Sorry @Dangerless .. I didn't know Vader Immortal was exclusive to Quest. Might have been a more helpful piece of information.

 
  DangerlessDangerless

This is my problem;

"On Oculus Connect 2018, Zuckerberg revealed that the Oculus Rift, the Oculus Go and the Oculus Quest are considered to be the company's first generation of products, expecting new iterations of the three to be developed for a second generation of the company's technology"

They are planning to create sub-products of these, this is why I used the examples such as smartphones and tablets (Amazon Fire tablets scream to me, how far Oculus is going to go with this is unknown but we know they are planning a second-generation and here is my Amazon Fire example; https://en.​wikipedia.​org/wiki/Amazon_Fire_tablet#Generations).​ I'm not in favor of having to add later ones using a similar platform.

I would be more willing to rebrand the platform we have on here from Oculus Rift to Oculus VR so that it ends up appealing to all present and future devices....the only issue with this is that now there isn't a way to separate submissions from people running the game. PS4Pro is actually the platform being used for PSVR for reference. The simplest solution around this issue would be to apply a filter to submissions, or until it becomes much easier to navigate through the platform list on SRC.

This is currently the middle-ground with this and the most were currently willing to go. It's a positive that this thing is getting a set of games made for the device but the above is the halting issue.

 
  BeanBean

Okay let's go over some examples with comparisons, since it really just feels like you don't actually understand the situation with Oculus.

The Oculus Quest is the mobile line. The Oculus Rift is the PC line. In terms of Nintendo, we could view the Quest as the DS and Rift is Wii.

You are right that sub products should not have to be separated, as that could get real annoying and silly real quickly. But this is not the case with the Quest versus the Rift. Like your quote says, they are separate lines of products that will have different generations (I honestly don't know how this quote could support your case, btw).

You would separate the DS from the 3DS because they have different games, different hardware, etc. You would NOT separate the DS, DSi, DS Lite, etc, since they are simply sub-products of essentially the same thing.

Rift to Quest is not DS to DSi. This is not a sub-product situation.

There are in fact sub-products - namely the Rift S https://www.​oculus.​com/rift-s - and I would not support splitting them up. We're really not trying to complicate the situation. The reality is that lumping in two+ completely different headsets under "Oculus VR" would be the real way to complicate the issue. I already have to deal with version differences with people using the SAME headset on their computers because of differences between Steam and Oculus store versions. To then have to also figure out whether the person under "Oculus VR" is actually using an entirely different kind of headset...well that would suck. There are already many mechanical differences between the Rift and Quest versions of SUPERHOT VR, even though they for the most part look entirely the same. This isn't just a theoretical issue: it is already the situation with one of the few games I've played so far.

I completely get that VR is a small thing right now, and you don't wanna overload the site with stuff. I also get that Oculus and other VR people have done a weird job communicating the full situation with headsets. I think I've done a reasonable job of clarifying the situation, so the best you can do is take my word as someone who has been deeply invested into the VR ecosystem. Would be great if you changed your mind and gave us an Oculus Quest system to list for people, but if not I'm sure we'll survive.

I appreciate all the discussion regardless of the results 🙂

 
  DangerlessDangerless

We'll have to wait and see what the future brings, seems to me it's still a bit too early for it to be warranted being added.

 
  DangerlessDangerless

Update on this; I moved this entire discussion to the staff and we had a chat about it for a good awhile, so here is what we did and planning to do;

We renamed "Oculus Rift" to "Oculus VR", this applies to all Oculus devices (Samsung, Rift, Rift S, Go and The Quest).

However, we did agree that at a later time if more people requested The Quest (and the whole VR scene grows out) to be its own independent listing due to not only its hardware and capabilities but its potential to be something worth adding.

I realize these are not the exact type of expectations wanting to be met but its something we are being careful about regarding the future and other future VR devices.

 
  TenkaTenka

Disappointing, but very well. In the meantime we will do our best to help runners differentiate the platforms where necessary.

Thank you for your time.

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