Forums  /  The Site  /  Leaderboards moderation requests thread (Locked)
  LivLiv

If you join the SRC server located here: https://discordapp.com/invite/0h6sul1ZwHVpXJmK , you should be able to DM him directly.

Alternatively, any of the avenues Komrade linked above.

 
  OhramiOhrami

@Liv After discussion with Pac, I determined that this part of your post at the end of page 302 is patently false:

"Runs shouldn't be being rejected for any other reason than if there's a compromise with the actual run itself, so I don't think it's entirely necessary to know the entirety of the drama between you guys and those on The Elite.net because it's not really relevant to the case I feel. They either have an issue with your runs, in the lines of cheating or foulplay, or they don't."

Pac specifically explained to me that this is not the case, in no uncertain terms (although his position apparently flip-flops several times throughout the discussion):

http://puu.sh/C4NeK.png

http://puu.sh/C4Neo.png

http://puu.sh/C4Ne5.png

http://puu.sh/C4NdB.png

The full discussion can be found in a text format here: http://puu.sh/C4Nnf.txt

Given this newfound information, could you and Pac work together to devise a list of things that you can't think or say lest you forfeit your right to be ranked on a leaderboard that has abusive mods? It would be useful for future cases, so other people like me don't have to waste their time going through this lengthy process. Thank you.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

Regardless of the reasoning I'm not sure how you can expect to be a moderator for the community if you and them are not on good terms. I just can't see that ever working out. Instead if you can think of somebody that, in your opinion, is more likely to be objective AND is in good standing with at least most of the community I would encourage them to come and apply for beigna mod. Also what the fuck was that homosexuality example. looks misleading as hell, its not the same thing at all. Stop beating around the bush with this shit and just say that this is about condoning child pornography and underage relationships.

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  OhramiOhrami

I never condoned "underage relationships". The homosexuality example is not misleading at all. It's a personal characteristic or trait entirely unrelated to speedrunning. Using this example showed that Pac's original statement, that the GoldenEye moderators don't need to accept any runs regardless of who submits them, is false. He clearly admitted that if a person was having their records denied on the basis of homosexuality, he would force the moderators to approve them, even if the leaderboard was "not in use" (by which he apparently means a leaderboard which is actively updated and has all best times for the game listed on it). Essentially, because he also disagrees with my political opinions, he will not step in and force the GoldenEye moderators to approve my records, even though if the roles were reversed and he disagreed with their political opinions, he would.

His criteria for who is protected under these circumstances are entirely arbitrary and have literally nothing to do with leaderboard integrity or speedrunning skill. I am genuinely surprised that someone who is supposed to be an administrator for a website based around recording who are the fastest players in various video games would go to such lengths to rationalize moderator abuse resulting in censorship of legitimate world record runs.

 
  KomradeKomrade

It's just speedrunning dude, not the Olympics. You're making it out like some great atrocity has been committed.

Reread the bit where Pac says that GE is handled by the community on a different site. A site you got banned from. Coming to SRC in some effort to dodge that ban won't matter if SRCs position is to let that community use SRC as more of a way to forward people to their site. Simply put, you go to the elite for GE and PD leaderboards. it's a matter to be handled between you and them, not SRC.

At this point if I was you would just record my runs in a google doc and move on. The elite clearly don't want you in their community for one reason or another, and trying to use SRC to force yourself back in isn't going to help you at all. Even if people here agree that you shouldn't be barred from a leaderboard because of personal beliefs, what can they actually do?

If I was in your shoes I would just dip. You don't need a leaderboard to speedrun, and if your only satisfaction from speedrunning is beating or tying other people's times, well guess what, you can still do that, just the elite won't accept your runs. Sucks but it seems like you're not going to get your way.

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  OhramiOhrami

Except it would be a matter handled between me and SRC, were Pac to disagree with their reasons to ban me. Because he doesn't fully disagree with their politically-charged reasoning, and actually agrees with their distaste toward my political views, he isn't stepping in. This is a pretty great atrocity. Whether it be an Olympic sprinter or an office chair racer, any legitimate competitor deserves to be included on the leaderboard for their sport. I am being discriminated against by bigots, quite literally.

http://puu.sh/C4OPA.png

 
  KomradeKomrade

Man, I just read that text copy. Good job leaving certain responses out, only to link everyone the convo anyways. I feel bad that Pac or anyone else here has to put up with that kind of behavior, probably on a daily basis.

You make an awful analogy and Pac slaps it down then you want to argue semantics again. Ultimately the owner of the site tells you you're not going to get your way and you're right back here on SRC, trying to weasel around to get your way.

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  KomradeKomrade

Sounds like you should form the elite 2 then and become the true leaderboard. Good luck!

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

Regardless of everything else, you can't just be a moderator for a community that doesn't want you to be one. What happens if a complicated matter comes up that needs to be discussed and resolved by everybody, do you just make the decision and everyone is supposed to just accept it? It can not work. They don't want to associate with you, but are gonna let you represent them by being a mod? That's not gonna happen and what you're doing is only further alienating yourself from everyone there and now you're probably starting to annoy people here as well.

 
  OhramiOhrami

If you read that as Pac "slapping it down", then you can't follow the conversation. The only "slapping down" he attempted was asking if I was comparing hebephilia to homosexuality, to which I responded no, as it's completely unrelated to the discussion and everything I said, and is in fact not what I was doing. The entire point of the question was me fishing for some example which would nullify his initial statement, that the GoldenEye community can moderate as they choose. His response to my question directly contradicted what he said, as after I posed the question, he said that he would in fact force them to approve runs of certain people under certain circumstances, due to his own political beliefs and, according to the logic of TalicZealot, his homosexuality.

According to Pac himself, the GoldenEye leaderboard is inactive and does not matter. It does matter to me, but according to Pac, I am alone on that. Therefore, me disagreeing with the community regarding how to moderate would not matter. Further, if an actual issue did come up, and not the community simply blocking and censoring someone for a bullshit reason, and I was being unreasonable (find it hard to be more unreasonable than the GoldenEye community in this situation), they could easily strip me of my moderator status for it, just as easily as it was given to me.

As moderator, I would properly integrate the-elite with speedrun.com, but make it more accurate than the-elite, so it in fact would matter. The-elite.net does not allow my legitimate runs to be ranked on their leaderboard, so with me properly updating speedrun.com, there would be an actual proper legitimate and accurate leaderboard for GoldenEye 007. Currently, there is not. The fact that this "doesn't matter" to some people seems wholly irrelevant.

 
  KomradeKomrade

Quote

fishing for some example which would nullify his initial statement

Yeah by equating homophobia to uh, idk, anti pedophilia? It's clear you're just trying to be as incredibly disingenuous as possible to get your way.

Site mods, and more importantly, the owner of SRC gave you his ruling on the matter. No one can help you here.

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  DrakodanDrakodan

What are you, 10 years old? (Let's see how many people get that one.)

At this point, all you're doing is tattling to the teacher because the big boys don't want to play with you. Then when the teacher won't do anything about it, you're tattling on them to the principal. And then tattling on the principal to the school board.

Trying to move up the 'chain of command' here is not going to achieve anything when the fundamental problem is that the leaderboards are managed by the community, and the community have cast you out as a pariah. You're not welcome at The-Elite, so you instead turn your attention to speedrun.com. Well guess what? It's still managed by the same people. If the site staff did add you as a moderator, what makes you believe for a second that you wouldn't immediately be unmodded by the rest of the team, and a huge community fallout ensuing? It is not the site staff's job to intervene in community affairs and overrule community decisions apart from exceptional cases, and this doesn't qualify. The only thing that's going to happen if you continue to pursue this is causing a lot of anger in the community, and you will not get what you want either way.

Your best move here is to duck out, get disappeared for a while, come back in the future under a different alias and keep your opinions to yourself. You can bemoan all you want about whether their decision is right or wrong, but that's not really what's important here. You have a way to get what you want, and you're not taking it because you're more interested in fueling the fire and putting yourself in worse standing.

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  OhramiOhrami

So a case in which a person is having legitimate runs censored because of inter-personal disagreements is not an exceptional case? So you do agree that if cheese were banned from his community for being gay, that would be acceptable, despite him holding multiple world records in his game? Or do you think that being gay is okay, and because you agree with his politics, you would side with him? Or because he's more popular? Or because the game he plays is more popular? Clearly, the site moderators (and you, in all likelihood) are hypocritical, so there has to be some reason for this hypocrisy.

The site moderators did specifically tell me that my runs would be approved, because, according to them, their leaderboards are intended to be run as leaderboards and not social justice platforms, unlike the-elite. However, because Pac, the site owner, is involved in the-elite clique (it's one of only three games he has ever tried to speedrun), and it already friends with the moderators of the game, he does not care that my completely legitimate runs are being censored by the game's moderators, even though he would in the case of other people who are either being censored by moderators he isn't already friends with or people who he actually likes or agrees with politically were censored. It was Pac who escalated the case this high, and if the site moderators' decision were to stand, my runs would indeed be approved, so your point there is moot.

It's quite clear to me that Pac and the GoldenEye moderators are involved in some deep corruption in an attempt to censor legitimate players who they do not like (specifically me), and after reading this entire thread and my discussion with Pac, that should be readily apparent to anyone.

 
  SeydieSeydie

Talking about downloading child pornography should be legal.. Shame on you.

This moderationship seems like an endless discussing

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  KomradeKomrade

Quote

So a case in which a person is having legitimate runs censored because of inter-personal disagreements is not an exceptional case? So you do agree that if cheese were banned from his community for being gay, that would be acceptable, despite him holding multiple world records in his game? Or do you think that being gay is okay, and because you agree with his politics, you would side with him? Or because he's more popular? Or because the game he plays is more popular? Clearly, the site moderators (and you, in all likelihood) are hypocritical, so there has to be some reason for this hypocrisy.

You're a pedophile dude, good luck getting people to back you up. Also stop putting words in people's mouths.

Quote

deep corruption

lmao, yeah they're probably colluding with Russia too

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  LivLiv

I was unaware at the time of The-Elite.net's connection to the SRC site from the standpoint of how it was setup. Mostly due to my lack of knowledge of The-Elite.net and Goldeneye Speedruns in general. Pac has corrected that stance during your conversation with him; the Goldeneye community / Leaderboards are primarily managed elsewhere, so as such it is out of hands to handle this situation.

The head of the site has given you his decision on the matter. If you want to take it further, then you're free to discuss it with him directly further, but other site mods definitely aren't going to go over his head in terms of decisions for obvious reasons. So, continuing this discussion here in particular would be rather pointless.

KomradeKomrade likes this. 
  OhramiOhrami

Why, then, would it not be out of hands for Pac or speedrun.com to handle the situation were it being done on the basis of me being gay, or being trans, or "etc."? Why those arbitrary classifications rather than having a blanket rule not to censor legitimate runs from the site?