Forums  /  The Site  /  Cheating and Cheaters
  GarshGarsh
(edited: )

The idea of this thread is simple, if someone notable (or not notable) is banned and you know why (whether or not you were actually involved in getting them banned) but others may not, post about it here so that other moderators can be made aware and revisit the banned person’s runs. Since site staff have refused to implement any kind of policy when it comes to transparency and cheaters, we will have to make it a community driven effort. This thread can also be used to discus cheating in general and the way cheating is handled on speedrun.com.

If you want my personal opinion as a game moderator, cheating should be a ban reason that is displayed publicly. They could even have an automated system where all the cheater’s runs are automatically rejected if they are permanently banned, and are reinstated if the ban is overturned. This way, the burden of figuring out which of the cheater’s runs are legit does not fall to game moderators and no permanent damage is done if a ban later turns out to be false. The penalty for cheating should be immediate (but not irreversible) removal of all runs, public shaming, and being banned from submitting runs ever again. This is just my opinion though.

Well Known Cheaters:

@7H3 - Banned for cheating (as far as I know)
@Jaypin88Jaypin88 - Was banned for stealing Sonic runs, was allowed back on the site by site staff.
@DreamWasTakenDreamWasTaken - Cheated multiple Java RSG runs, was banned from the Java community but never on the site.
@Bluely - Banned for cheating in Google Snake (I think)

Users Banned from Geometry Dash: - Thanks @WalgreyWalgrey
@7H3 - you know who it is
@kostia_982 - faked a 1-8 run (If I remember correctly, no-clip was used)
@FireflameGamesYTFireflameGamesYT - cheated a SubZero run
@Mikeltxo751 - stole someone else's run
@FlubyFans000FlubyFans000 - stole someone else's run
@mootumootu - speedhacked a run
@BoyYellowBoyYellow - spliced and edited several Meltdown runs in retaliation to me not retiming the run to make them first place
@MrCodicMrCodic - speedhacked a 1-8 run, privately admitted to speedhacking the run. not banned, but definitely can't be trusted
@Geometry_dash222 - stole a Meltdown run
@RyanFitzmorris - edited a 1-8 run
@FaZeEnderCreeper - idk
@Ender_Man967Ender_Man967 - faked a Google Snake run

Misc Cheaters
@IucasTheWolfSG - Use of some sort of hacked client (thanks @TuttereyTutterey )
@shlok - stole a seterra run (thanks @ViperViper )
@TheDictorsTheDictors - cheated a couple Escapists 2 Multitool World Records (thanks @SkittlesCat83 )
@timbos468 - Using mods (thanks @Merl_Merl_ )
@TheDrwinsitos - Spliced multiple runs on Roblox games (thanks @ElimsElims )

LXndxZzZLXndxZzZ, VyPrVyPr and 15 others like this. 
  TRLittleToasterTRLittleToaster

I think a thread like this has already been made but who cares, it's worth bringing back

https://www.speedrun.com/mcbe/thread/5cuo8 here's a good start, the list of banned players from Minecraft: Bedrock Edition

luigidasonicluigidasonic, IvoryIvory and 3 others like this. 
  HiHi

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The penalty for cheating should be immediate (but not irreversible) removal of all runs, public shaming, and being banned from submitting runs ever again.

While it's obvious that cheating definitely isn't cool, I feel like the punishments that you are suggesting are a little overkill. There have been cheaters in the past who admitted to cheating and after they did they started speedrunning legitimately; what you're suggesting would get rid of these people that want to redeem themselves as well.
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This way, the burden of figuring out which of the cheater’s runs are legit does not fall to game moderators

Most cheaters don't cheat every run that they submit, they only cheat one or a few at most before getting caught, so while it is fair to ban them for cheating it's not fair to also discredit them from every run they ever submitted without checking if they're legit or not.

RetroPacmanRetroPacman, BaldicBaldic and 3 others like this. 
  GarshGarsh
(edited: )

@HiHi that is why I said “(but not irreversible)” also we do not know which runs are legit. There in lies the problem, a cheater could’ve been doing it for 1 run or hundreds of runs. They already lied once when submitting a fake run, who’s to say they won’t again?

People who want to come back are generally unbanned. In the system I am proposing if a cheater is unbanned, their runs are reinstated. So this does not eliminate cheaters who redeem themselves and come back to the site.

 
  Merl_Merl_

@timbos468 is the only person I've caught intentionally cheating in any of the games I mod. He cheated by using mods to improve his times. He was caught, given a second chance, and then got caught cheating in another game. I don't know if he still speedruns, but I would advise people to be very careful when examining his runs. I don't believe any of the runs on his profile currently are faked, I rejected all of the suspicious times.

GarshGarsh likes this. 
  diggitydiggity

public shaming?

bro. relax.

JulianTexoJulianTexo, BaldicBaldic and ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets like this. 
  Bob-chickenBob-chicken

They did something wrong, and unless there is some kind of moderator forum made then there is nothing better to do.

GarshGarsh and 11 like this. 
  11

Originally posted by diggity
public shaming?

bro. relax.


If you don't want to be publically shamed, don't fucking cheat lol. I think this is great. If a top runner of one of my games randomly gets permabanned I do not want to need to spend the next year of my life arguing with site admins to find out why he was banned only to get literally nowhere.

ElimsElims, LXndxZzZLXndxZzZ and 13 others like this. 
  survivalMichisurvivalMichi

cheaters should be marked.

easy as that.

GarshGarsh and IvoryIvory like this. 
  HiHi

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In the system I am proposing if a cheater is unbanned, their runs are reinstated.

Sounds good in theory but in practice it might be hard to achieve that, since the code would have to check for every user, find if they are banned, then check if the reason was for cheating, and either hide their runs or delete them temporarily (in which case they might be vulnerable to losing their account altogether because of name changing). Then, if they get unbanned, the code has to again check for every user and see if there was anyone banned specifically for cheating that isn't banned anymore, and only then it can unhide the runs. I think that might be pretty tedious to program if you ask me.

 
  HiHi
(edited: )

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cheaters should be marked. easy as that.

That could work, but what I would "prefer" instead (from one point of view) is that moderators or Super Mods of a game or series to get the ability to ban a user from their leaderboard and/or series (not just reject every run they submit, that isn't really banning) so that the person doesn't get the chance to submit runs anymore. Then, after the said user gets banned, it would show on their profile in the Info tab or whatever that they are banned from the X leaderboard for the reason of cheating (or any other reason). But again this is another suggestion that in theory it sounds good but in practice not so much.

GarshGarsh likes this. 
  survivalMichisurvivalMichi

virgin leaderboard mod collection vs chad leaderboard ban collection

GarshGarsh likes this. 
  HiHi

Pretty much yeah.

GarshGarsh likes this. 
  GarshGarsh
(edited: )

I do like your idea @HiHi but that is not currently possible and the next best thing is just displaying the ban reason.

The thing about the auto run rejection system is not necessarily true, if a user is banned for cheating it would get all runs submitted by them, place them in an array, then loop through and change all their status to "rejected", the reason to "Banned for Cheating" and rejecter to "Speedruncom". Same goes the other way, when a user is unbanned it checks for all runs by that user that are rejected with the reason "Banned for Cheating" by Speedruncom and simply change their status to "verified" again. Also, you can't change your name or access your settings while you are banned (at least according to @LorLor ).

MrMonshMrMonsh likes this. 
  KomradeKomrade
(edited: )

Leaderboards operate primarily on trust. Cheating breaks that trust. A cheater left to continue submitting runs is invalidating all leaderboards they get accepted to. Even if someone cheated ONCE. YEARS AGO. THEY WERE REEEEEEEEALLY SORRY, and were never "caught" again, it's still not enough. Too many runs can be cheated with no one ever knowing. This is why verification is more a formality for checking that rules are being followed. Sure sometimes a mod will catch a cheated run, but the fact that WRs have stood for years in the past and never got caught shows that it's easy to get away with. Break that trust, you shouldn't be allowed to submit runs.

If they're just really passionate about speedrunning, and doing so legitimately and competitively, they can still do so without ruining a leaderboard for everyone else. Or they could submit under a different account (not that I condone this, but it's an option). They would never take that route because just like they cheated in the past for clout, they would feel the need to run "legit" for clout as well. Unfortunately there's no way around it. If you want to submit to leaderboards as yourself, don't cheat. I've been saying this for years now. I'll just refer to this post in the future should it ever come up again.

6oliath6oliath, ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets and 2 others like this. 
  LivLiv
(edited: )

Agree largely with Komrade.

Also, there doesn't need to be a public shaming or public tag associated with profiles. I mentioned this in the Jaypin thread, the idea that when you submit to a game that moderators should be able to see a tag mentioning prior instances of cheating alongside your submission. Moderators deserve to know if a user that is submitting to their game has had a past history of cheating on the site.

If you're just going to let cheaters drift back into obscurity, why bother banning them at all in the first place? Are Site Mods keeping a personal track of cheater history? Will they be aware of massive repeat offenses and dish out perma bans after so many offenses? Or are they expecting individual game mods to keep tabs on everyone thats been banned prior and pass usernames amongst themselves? Last I checked, individual leaderboard bans weren't a thing, are they now? Are they allowed now despite the functionality not existing?

If cheaters aren't going to be permanently banned on the site itself then there definitely needs to be some tools given to users either visual or functional to allow communities to manage themselves.

6oliath6oliath, PearPear and 3 others like this. 
  hahhah42hahhah42

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Last I checked, individual leaderboard bans weren't a thing, are they now?
You mean that they aren't allowed, or that there aren't any leaderboards that do this? Because there are definitely some leaderboards that do, such as smb1.

GarshGarsh and WalgreyWalgrey like this. 
  HiHi
(edited: )

I'm just going to refer to my post from a thread I made a few weeks ago as I find that to be probably the best solution to all of this.

Originally posted by Hi Instead of getting banned from the website as a whole, what if you could separate getting banned on the forums from getting banned from submitting runs? what could be done instead is ban that person just from the forums while allowing them to still submit runs, and viceversa too; if there's a player that cheated in the past they should get banned from the leaderboards but still be allowed to talk on the forums.

A cheater, while breaking the moderators' trust, doesn't deserve to be put in a read-only state forever in my opinion, I feel like that's just a little too much.

 
  TRLittleToasterTRLittleToaster

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A cheater, while breaking the moderators' trust, doesn't deserve to be put in a read-only state forever in my opinion, I feel like that's just a little too much.

No they should