Forums  /  The Site  /  High Scores - what shall we do?
  6oliath6oliath

@emeraldaly Just like how speedgames weren't all built to measure the player's speed, many scoregames weren't built to measure score.

It would be foolish to limit high score leaderboards to games that actually show your numerical points. Just like it would be foolish to limit SRC to racing games with in-game timers. Any game with a measurable objective can be "scored" outside the game's own systems.

In any case, plenty of new and popular games do measure score, so it's not like it'd be only retro games.

NovaeuNovaeu, bogdan.mbogdan.m and blueYOSHIblueYOSHI like this. 
  Khaos_CeroKhaos_Cero

I think it makes sense to try No 3, ask them, and if that doesnt work out or is too expensive, then we will come back to rethink.

CarkInTheDarkCarkInTheDark likes this. 
  Oh_DeeROh_DeeR

I haven't settled on an opinion yet, so I'll just provide my unreflected gut feelings:

1. Add high scores to speedrun.com.

Speedrun.com implies speedrun content. I could see an optional integration à la "☑ Show highscores" where data is pulled from the database, but I think it should be hosted under its own domain.

2. Work with the owner of highscore.com to try to improve the existing site.

I'm not a fan of the current site's style. Even though I'm in my mid 30s, I don't appreciate the late 90s design choices and the integrated game music that blew out my eardrums unannounced. I think there might be too much of a gap in philosophies there for a cooperation.

3. Try again to buy highscore.com (offering more money), make a completely new website in its place, while trying to salvage as much of the existing data as possible.

Probably the best solution, but only for a reasonable amount of money.

4. Make a completely new high scores website under a different name / domain name.

Hiscore.com seems available, but compared to the proper spelling, it does look a bit underwhelming, I admit. I agree that scorerun.com seems forced.

blueYOSHIblueYOSHI likes this. 
  DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres

SO. I missed the beginning of this thread and don't have time to read it all right now so some of what I'm about to say may have already been put up.

I personally love getting high scores and have actively used the sites in question (TG, Highscore, Cyberscore) and they all lack a specific feel to them. TwinGalaxies is not trusted due to their older scores being very suspicious in nature. Cyberscore just isn't very professional and anyone can submit any score without and real means of verification. And lastly is Highscore.com, which is the site I use the most.

Now, Highscore.com is the best of the sites listed, but it is far from good. their method of verification does not work and a lot of the highscore community does not enjoy it. their verification method is by community voting. 25 votes total with at least 80% saying the score is legit. but the site is full of "trolls" who vote no on every score. I've brought up the option of games getting moderators to the site runners, but it gets shot down almost immediately.

I feel like if there was a highscore site that was run in the same manner as Speedrun.com then it would be an amazing site and would quickly become the most popular site for highscores.

now for the options listed, I don't see that option 2 will work knowing the people running the site, I don't think they will try to change it. number 3 is also somewhat preferred because it could upset the community of people who already use highscore.com by changing it. But, the options of 1 and 4 seem like they would work out pretty good in my opinion. while Highscore.com is a good domain name, buying it just doesn't seem like a good option. however, I could also be completely wrong on that front.

bogdan.mbogdan.m, blueYOSHIblueYOSHI and CarkInTheDarkCarkInTheDark like this. 
  CarkInTheDarkCarkInTheDark

I'd really like to see high scores added to speedrun.com.

Failing that, I'd like to see a sister site, either highscore.com. or whatever domain best fits.
I don't know the amount of money involved in this, but I think it would be a good investment for the site 🙂

CaiteladyCaitelady and DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres like this. 
  BanksBanks

Add it to speedrun.com, as a new category like game runs vs levels runs, just add a few minor options to help users experience the parts of the site they care about. For example, options to default to score or speed runs when clicking into a game (if it has both), options for what to include in their homepage feed and notifications, and options for what to display by default in their profile. Users who are only interested in speedrunning only need to see that part of the site, but everything is kept closely-integrated for when it makes sense.

I fear complexity as much as the next developer/designer, but hopefully this can serve these different use cases while remaining relatively simple.

CarkInTheDarkCarkInTheDark likes this. 
  FitzentoasterFitzentoaster

A sister-site would be great, but it would need tight-integration I think to really make it great: almost as if the high-scores were another part of the categories on this site, if you will. I'd be all for allowing it on the main site as well: it could easily be a category in some games, especially less popular ones, and could fit into category extensions or whatnot on the big games.

There's definitely going to be some issues or confusion that arises somehow... but who knows. Perhaps even if all the data on the back-end is the same, maybe a separate domain, so that the speedrun.com defaults to only, or first, listing speedruns, and scoreblah.nut defaults to high scores? They could still all be accessible from both, if you will. I dunno. At any rate, I'd really like to see it though, because I think it would be a huge boon for popularity of score gaming and especially arcade gaming.

CarkInTheDarkCarkInTheDark likes this. 
  SaimeZXSaimeZX

Excuse me that I don't know how to quote properly.

"Cyberscore just isn't very professional and anyone can submit any score without and real means of verification."
Have you recently visited cs? There's a whole proof system in place that is moderated daily. Users can submit proof of their score at the same time. The proof will be looked at and approved/rejected it. Besides that there's a report feature that anyone can report any score (with a good arguement of course).
So yeah I don't really know what you mean by "without any real means of verification".

Also as a reply to the first post: I don't like any of those options.

DarkEonMasterDarkEonMaster, BradonBradon and 2 others like this. 
  DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres

I haven't used cyberscore in a while no, but if it still works like it use to you can submit scores without verification, or with verification.

 
  TemperGraceTemperGrace

That's true DarQ. It's also no different to speedrun.com, with the only point of difference being that verification is decided on a game by game basis here. It's likely that the same would occur on whatever solution Pac decides to run with for this website.

DarkEonMasterDarkEonMaster, ikkatosh23ikkatosh23 and TheBrainTheBrain like this. 
  DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres

I just realized I was using the wrong word.... this is Awkward.... I meant the word "Evidence" scores would be submit with no evidence to show for them. My apologizes to any confusion I may have caused.

I meant that you could submit a score with no evidence but there is also no verification to tell if the score with no evidence is legitimate or not.

 
  starcrytasstarcrytas

High scores should be implemented here on speedrun.com with the subdomain highscore.speedrun.com as some have mentioned before.
Moderators can moderate the same game like they do right now.
Maybe we can import legit scores from other websites like Twin Galaxies, Cyberscore, and/or highscore.com if the user is willing to do so and if the score is 100% legit and have the verified by be from the site imported from.

CarkInTheDarkCarkInTheDark likes this. 
  CriscoWildCriscoWild

I don't see the point. Considering how much this site likes to avoid stepping on the toes of other communities, 95% of a highscores.com site would look like this.

"The community is tracking this leaderboard at twingalaxies.com until a time at which API synchronization between the two sites is developed or circumstances change."

zewingzewing and SaimeZXSaimeZX like this. 
  paintophobiapaintophobia

Yes you can submit a score with no evidence to cyberscore, but it's not actually verified by a moderator untill it has a tick next to it. Also, I'm pretty sure for the score to count towards points (a thing cyberscore does), it has to be verified. This means that you can just ignore the non-verified runs, no strings attached. The verification system is a lot like that on zelda.speedruns.com .

It is genuinely a decent website. I don't know what you mean when you say "there is no verification".

 
  TheBrainTheBrain

Hello guys, and thank you. I think all websites have to have a slightly different slant on things. It'd be dead boring if they were all clones of each other. Due to the nature of speed running it makes perfect sense to me to have a stricter proof requirement.

Accessibility for all has always been a focus of mine for Cyberscore and our community does an excellent job of removing anything suspicious. Truly outstanding and hard-earned scores are proven immediately and then because the vast majority of scores/times are saved in game it is trivial to request proof from anything that is unusual. With approaching a quarter of a million approved scores, we certainly do have quite an efficient system.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman, DarkEonMasterDarkEonMaster and 4 others like this. 
  Khaos_CeroKhaos_Cero

So... just hypothetically.
If you take, mine, scrape highscores from other pages... is that actually copyright infringement?
I mean these are public records... no?

 
  Khaos_CeroKhaos_Cero

@PMniac I dont think emulators should be banned unless they are marked as emulator runs clearly and have video evidence.
99% of us will play Arcade games on MAME. And highscores are usually from arcade games.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman likes this. 
  TheBrainTheBrain

@Khaos_Cero I think you'd run into problems of storing people's data without permission, rather than copyright.

ImaproshamanImaproshaman likes this. 
  DarQ_MassacresDarQ_Massacres

@TheBrain we've taken runs from other sites (for example dragster and barnstorming from sites like Highscore.com and Twin Galaxies) and if there is ever a person who says it is their run we link the run to their account or if they really don't want the run on the site it can be taken down. I just feel like it would make more sense to have all of these scores in one place as oppose to having them split up over four or five different sites.

Also, for those who don't know @TheBrain is the one who runs the site "Cyberscore"

bogdan.mbogdan.m, HowDenKingHowDenKing and 2 others like this.