Forums  /  The Site  /  High Scores - what shall we do?
  6oliath6oliath

Honestly all four options you laid out are great imo @Pac

Here's a thought, though.

To speedrun. A speedrunner. Speedrunning. The action of running though a game with the goal of speed. It's a term and we've all helped coin it.

What the heck do you call someone who attempts to get high scores?
A scoregamer?
A highscorer?
An eScorer? (Pls no)

This is an opportunity to not just create a hub, but to breathe new life into an old hobby. If you're interested in positioning it alongside speedruns, why not match the branding and wording?

If we need to, we can coin a new term. I know I joked months ago that someone should get scorerun.com, but I could get behind that.

Or pointrun.com

Or topscore.com

KingOf_JonnyBoyKingOf_JonnyBoy likes this. 
  NihilistComedyHourNihilistComedyHour

I don't have any particular interest in this matter, but it seems like if the highscores could be kept on a separate form the speedruns on a same game page (much how the full-game and the level runs have their own section of a game page), then there would be benefit of having both sets of data on the same page, while keeping the boards looking relatively the same. If done like this, would be possible to keep separate stats for high scores and speedruns in the database, which would be good.

Really_TallReally_Tall likes this. 
  K3fkaK3fka

I like the idea of creating something like scores.speedrun.com. While it may not fit the name exactly, a high score database definitely fits the theme and ideals of this website already.

YT_Veritas0923YT_Veritas0923, KingOf_JonnyBoyKingOf_JonnyBoy and 2 others like this. 
  HowDenKingHowDenKing

I'm fine with speedrun.com having score-"runs" be added to the interface,
but not mixed with speedruns on the same boards.
they'd need to be seperated like ILs are from Full-Game right now.
And while we're at that, why not make a variable system for it instead of just having 2 (3/4 with scores), allowing for much more rich leaderboards.
I'm sure the Kingdom Hearts, Monster Hunter & other boards would greatly benefit from this.(edited)

thelugetheluge, KingOf_JonnyBoyKingOf_JonnyBoy and 2 others like this. 
  tom641tom641

I think 1 or 4 would be the best solutions. Honestly I don't think speedruns.com hosting score attacks would really confuse too many people.

Also if you did just add it to the existing site you could potentially have it so that being on the high score or speedrun pages for a specific game would have a direct link to the opposite page. So for example if I were looking up Contra speedruns I could also just click an option on the sidebar and go to the matching "score attack" page for it, if it exists.

 
  GproGpro

I really don't like any of those outcomes is a good idea for the communities it entails, really.

The first thing I want to address, after talking with people from Cyberscore and other communities, is that I don't think pure integration will work in a beneficial way for everyone. If SRCom has integration from Cyberscore or highscore or whatever, why should it even exist? We might think that their system is flawed, but they've been around for how long now and they've been doing fine? Yes, they should change things here and there. But forcing it under new things by new people will be more destructive for the communities as a whole further down the line

The second thing is that I think a fully centralized hub for everything will be disastrous and harmful for the communities. The thing is is that speedrunning and competitive score guys are not singular communities at all. They are a network of sub-communities, large and small, that only share common goals, which makes up these "communities" we think of. I think something like that doesn't deserve to be under a single hub, but a network of hubs that connect to each other. Instead of "Do it my way" or "I'll buy you out", it NEEDS to be connected, but still under the influence of the people themselves. SRCom ALMOST has a similar system, but the stuff is bound to how the site is. Cyberscore is bound to its own stuff, but can still have changes in moderation and everything. We need connection, not integration
And the way you've been going about the stuff, since you were neglectful of connection to begin with, is disrespectful and closed-minded. I've been around these communities for almost 8 years now. I've seen them work in their own ways. It's good and beautiful. I've seen the CS scene, the Sonic Center scene, the speedrun.com scene, the google docs, the twitch scene... I've seen that stuff develop. I've seen some die. I don't think domination is how things need to be done and Pac, you're being too aggressive. You should talk to Cyberscore's mods and understand how they had their relationship with Sonic Center and learn from that. I think if he does those things, he will largely benefit all of these communities, but I think his current plans will do a lot of harm and disorganize and separate the communities further than they already are.

The third is that, well, creating a new site just divides things further. Why compete? Why go against each other? Why not coexist with a network? It should be possible if you guys sit down and talk instead of integration. It's worked for lots of speedgames that didn't have all this stuff before, but just taking over existing ones just doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm sorry if this seems a bit rude, but these are my honest feelings. The honest feelings of an oldboy who's experienced quite a few aspects of our part of the gaming community

victorardsvictorards, DarkEonMasterDarkEonMaster and 13 others like this. 
  AstralHoatzinAstralHoatzin

@6oliath Right, there's a ton of potential in "score-running" as a competitive hobby, not just with achieving the highest possible score, but also with achieving the highest possible score within a certain amount of time. Take Super Mario 64 for instance: it takes just over 15 minutes to complete a 16-star run, but how many stars could a runner collect in the span of 15 minutes? Cheese05 managed to collect 19 stars within the first 15 minutes of his 47:34 70-star run, but that number could go much higher with a proper, optimized route.

6oliath6oliath likes this. 
  nro337nro337

I think we truly need to either purchase "highscore.com" or implement a new website. The cross-referencing of high scores and time-based records could ultimately muddy the effects of this site if the audience doesn't understand the thought process behind it.

Wipeoutjack7Wipeoutjack7 likes this. 
  HabrenoHabreno

I don't particularly like the concept of having scores and times mixed. As @AstralHoatzin suggested, I think scorerun.com is the best URL that still ties into the established brand. That said, having tie-ins where a game with speedruns and scoreruns has a link to the other on each page would be an intelligent thing to do. That as well as a unified member list (an account on one is good for both) I feel would help get a new site running.

As highscore.com isn't interested in selling for an amount you clearly felt was at least worthy of consideration, that isn't an option. I don't know what amount you're talking about there, but I can imagine it's up there. With highscore.com not being a consideration, that also eliminates highscores.com. And since you want to have control, that also eliminates a collaboration wth highscore.com.

So my preference would be for 4, and you can invite on some of cyberscore's team to help. The only concern I have is with you personally being spread too thin by doing this.

6oliath6oliath and ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets like this. 
  Khaos_CeroKhaos_Cero

3 is interesting if you can buy it for a reasonable amount of money. Especially because of the data. Starting at zero is rough.

Then again maybe starting at zero would make people wanna submit a lot of scores and eventually this new page becomes so popular that old scores from other pages would be moved here as well by those people.

Wipeoutjack7Wipeoutjack7 likes this. 
  zopneyzopney

I find it oddly convenient that I am dealing with this issue for the game I moderate. I currently maintain a high score leaderboard for Warframe. Unfortunately, this website does not provide the variables I need, so I have to adapt by using milliseconds as an increasing metric (since I can sort the leaderboards by longest time). I have it tucked away, simply because there is no website available that tracks these scores and the branding here is for speedruns. Over time, and for some reason, this Miscellaneous leaderboard has become the de facto location to hold these records. This leaderboard kind of gained a legitimacy based around the proactive nature of my moderators and I supporting the common high score player's attempts.

Recently, some of the community members were finally convinced to make a new website to differentiate these runs from this website, but it is still in infancy. While I take no position professionally, I am personally all for integrating high scores into speedrun.com, since I already have the data, the experience, and the willingness to work with the infant sister site before they get too far. Maybe make a third category from Full-game and Level leaderboard called High Score or something? The communities are separate, but for my community, we are closer together than what we think.

Also, if you fancy more reading, this is my essay regarding why I started these leaderboards: https://www.speedrun.com/wf/thread/hg3pv

BanksBanks, 6oliath6oliath and blueYOSHIblueYOSHI like this. 
  SickMyDuckSickMyDuck

I think that the third opinion seems correct and that the fourth should be applied in case of appeal in case of refusal again for the 3. Maybe by creating a new site both parallel and separate at speedrun.com, you could double the popularity of the speedrun globally. Speedrun.com is a true reference in terms of video games and especially speedrun, and by bringing a "revolution" it would be a huge step more

 
  Dethklok1637Dethklok1637

Really nice post. I think it's not worth fighting over the ownership of another domain simply because it's another layer of bureaucracy we don't need. It would be nice to just integrate high scores into this site, knowing that the name could change somewhat.

 
  ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets

I don't particularly like the idea of mixing speedruns and score runs together directly on this site (as score runs and speedruns are fundamentally different things), so I think having a separate site is the best option. I don't think 2 is a good option, and it sounds like 3 isn't realistic, so I think that 4 is the best option. I like the idea that's been brought up a few times here of making a new site but having the userbase (and possibly API?) for both sites overlap.

Also, if it is decided that we're making a new website for scores, I'd be interested in doing development work for it if that's needed.

Patrick_BarrettPatrick_Barrett likes this. 
  MarlonH8MarlonH8

Either 1 or 3.
Option 1 would make some current leaderboards look much better since the IGT is measured in a points-system.

 
  ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets

@MarlonH8 I imagine if a new site was made then we would retire the "millisecond scoreboards" we have here.

 
  Khaos_CeroKhaos_Cero

@Carcinogen

wow that page is so 90s it hurts. Enjoyable pain.

 
  GenoKirbyGenoKirby

I think combining it with speedrun.com is the best option, high scores are similar enough to justify combining them, and some games nearly do this already (mostly Tetris)

This site is already big enough that, if everything were added right, anyone searching <game> high scores could just be linked to the games page here, which would save you money and work, as well as allowing people who are already mods of a game to be mods of high scores for it without much work. It would also increase activity for games with high scores, as if someone is speedrunning a game, they could very easily switch to high score attempts, submit that, more activity in the game, great cycle. This would also allow for games that commonly don't have any "high score attempts" to have them, but this would be a rare case. Either way, more activity is good.

CaiteladyCaitelady, DarkEonMasterDarkEonMaster and Really_TallReally_Tall like this. 
  EmojiMOONEmojiMOON

I dream about the option 1 everyday, but I really think it's can only be viable for new/mobile/indie games.
I'm not sure the good old arcade games/gamers will migrate to the site.

RepentMFRepentMF likes this.