Need guidance on rules and other misc stuff.
6 years ago
California, USA

Hello everyone, I had a few questions I wanted to ask. I'm getting sick of pestering the good runners constantly so I'll post them up here. I'll write a little back story first in case any of the info is relevant. Skip the next 2 paragraphs if you don't care about the back story.

I've been watching zelda speed runs for a few weeks now and practicing techniques for 2 weeks. About a week ago I started streaming attempts on runs. I just completed my first stream/recorded run without any deaths and without the blue/red ring. It was a little wonky of a run timing in at 53.27 or close to that. Pb before that was 42 minutes with blue ring and not streamed.

Unfortunately I don't have a capture card at the moment. I don't have the extra funds laying around right now, so I'm using an emulator.

I'm using the latest version of fceux for my zelda runs, but I have questions to make sure I'm being as legit as possible without using console.

-are there any default settings that come standard with fceux that would disqualify a run? -is there a specific zelda 1 rom I need to use or are any ok as long as they are the correct version for the list I'm going for? -is there any other reason a run could be considered cheating that a new runner might not know about? -if someone is watching a stream and remind you that you are low in rupees or maybe that you are a key lower than you need to be, is that considered cheating?

Now for a few random questions.

-zelda looks horrible on my HDTV, but does using the HDTV affect the difficulty or is it purely cosmetic? (all this input delay stuff confuses me)

-when would you guys recommend I change from 2 first rout to 3 first?

-wiz robes will often be invisible while standing still on emulator. This never happens to me on console. Is this normal for emulator? I'm not talking about when they are teleporting or when they are transparent It's hard to describe, but I promise I'm not walking in to a freshly teleported wiz. I sometimes have a problem with armos as well. I will walk into one to activate it, then it will move away, then when I try to go in the shop/secret room I will take damage from an invisible unit and a transparent armos will appear and run away, resulting in 2 armos from 1 spot. Bad rom or emulator setting?

-another odd thing, ganon is usually invisible unless I hit him as well ;) kidding with this one.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to glance over this and thanks to everyone who has helped me out or checked out my gameplay on twitch. This is a great community I'm hoping to be a part of soon.

Linkorange likes this
United States

Emulator settings: Make sure left+right and up+down are turned off. Make sure you only have one button bound to each controller button.

ROM version: Get the US NES version. Either PRG0 or PRG1 is fine.

Cheating: No watching memory variable, using savestates, or any of that stuff. Only do things you can do on a real NES.

Stream viewers helping: That's fine.

HD: An LCD TV probably adds lag to the display which will make it harder to play.

Changing routes: You don't really "need" to until you're looking at a PB around 33 minutes I guess? Really whenever you want though.

Wizzrobes: Sounds like your emulator isn't displaying at 60fps.

4iSteven likes this
California, USA

Thanks for the answers man, that was quick. Can you please explain watching memory variable? It's not something that could be turned on without me knowing about it is it? That's really all I'm worried about.

One last question. It was recommended to me that I display the whole emulator window and not just the gameplay but I can't figure out how to do this without doing a display capture. I don't really want my desktop showing to the stream along with my wife's stupid Facebook pop ups. ill keep trying to figure out a way to fix this, but in the mean time can I submit runs that are live streamed and recorded with only the game capture on?

I probably won't submit any runs any time soon unless there is a reason to? I wanted to hit sub 40 without blue ring and with no deaths before I submitted a run.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
United States

Recording the whole emulator window is in general a good idea, along with having a record of streamed attempts showing effort and improvement, but if you ever go for WR, get on console. :)

Window capture should be able to show the enitre window? don't know.

California, USA

As soon as I can swing enough money for a capture card I will definitely play on console. I know there are cheap cc's but my wife streams as well and wants one that captures Wii U and PS4 and from my understanding any card that captures Nes and PS4 is kind of pricy?

My obs disconnected from internet twice last night while I was streaming, so I deleted the sections of video from twitch. I have a full length video on my computer with no breaks in it. Would you recommend putting that garbage on YouTube? I also have a 42ish minute run recorded offline but that was with blue ring before I was told it's generally a bad idea to get blue ring. Does the community want to see improvement as some sort of proof to validate good runs?

Being on stream completely destroys runs for me because my focus is horrible and I can't resist talking to my friends who show up.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
United States

HD Capture is expensive. But to capture an NES, GV USB2 is solid. http://amzn.to/2uKCUSQ

And I Think putting all your PBs on youtube is great.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
4iSteven likes this
California, USA

Ok, thanks for all the help sir.

California, USA

Do you guys have a community discord server up?

Antarctica

Yes we do, you can find the invite link on this page http://zelda.speedruns.com/discords

That page also has just about every other Zelda speedrunning discord server if you want to join others.

Edited by the author 6 years ago

One very small thing to note is that between runs there should be a console reset or power on (this applies to emulators as well). Using "RETRY" in the death menu does not reset all current data. As long as I can see the death that led to the game over screen, I'm not going to reject runs based on this unless they are competitive times and gained an unfair advantage, similar to the "no death warps" rule.

For most games, when the system (the hardware) and game (software) is powered on the game's software tells the hardware to insert specific values into memory. These specific values determine some things that will happen in the game, such as where enemies will be placed and what they will drop. In The Legend of Zelda, the Retry feature on the death screen does not reset the global drop table (seen here: http://redcandle.us/The_Legend_of_Zelda#Drops), consecutive kill counters, enemy formations cycle or last recorder warp location.

So, it would be possible to route time savings before timing a run. In theory, this would include having a file with sword, recorder, bombs, and Triforces. You would visit specific screens to set up formations, kill a certain number of enemies to set up drop counts, and toot the recorder to set up its next warp location. Then you could Up&A retry, start your run and timer and reap your drop counts on favorable patterns. Combining all these things, pre-run manipulations could lead to saving even 10 seconds, but the setup between each run would be much longer.

Rules are not consistent across all speedrun communities. Example of strong manipulations and how communities differ on their use: In Final Fantasy (NES) the enemy encounters are pre-determined from a table that is the same every time the game is powered on; but when the RESET button is used the enemy encounters continue where they left off. In Final Fantasy IV, a value that changes every frame at the title screen is locked in when you press Start (aka a "seed"). Each seed changes the enemy formations and the number of steps between each encounter.

edit: 14November2017 -- same content, clearer more concise language.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
PresJPolk likes this
California, USA

I had to read that a couple times, but thank you for the info. I will definitely reset from now on instead of hitting retry. Thanks for the in depth explanation eunos!

United States

I didn't know he'd been hitting retry. Good catch Eunos

Michigan, USA

So I'm playing on the Wii VC. If I create a new name with the registration. Can I play straight from there? Or do I need to also reset before starting that new file?

Edited by the author 6 years ago
United States

you need to reset before registering a name, but you don't have to reset between registering your name and starting

British Columbia, Canada

I'd like to point out that the OP of this thread, who was a 53.27 7 months ago, is now on an amazing run in the current tournament.

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