Forums  /  Swordigo  /  Small tenchnicality may make 100% + CD WR not valid?
  JasonAce13JasonAce13

So I watched Zack Miller's 1:44:37, and I noticed he never buys the Iron sword, nor the Broadsword, from the first two shops. He does meet all other 100% + CD criteria. Does this make his run invalid?

 
  drgrumbledrgrumble

Good spot. Tough call but rules are rules and buying those items can have a material effect on the time, so I'll reject it.

 
  ZarcatusZarcatus

I understand that the rules say for 100% say he has to get all the achievements and treasures. Are swords actually considered as one of those?

 
  drgrumbledrgrumble

I have had another look at the achievements list and admittedly there is not one that requires buying those items. I will reinstate the run, unless you had any comment Jason?

 
  drgrumbledrgrumble

Alternatively there could be an "All achievements / treasures" category and separately a 100% category which also requires that all weapons and armor be obtained. Don't mind having both but depends on what categories will actually get run. For the moment I will reinstate Zach Miller's run in 100% and if you want an additional category to include weapons / armor Jason then go for it (relabel the other category "All achievements / treasures").

 
  JasonAce13JasonAce13

I don't think we need a 3rd 100% category. I just don't think that you would gain that much time by not buying those Items, but what do I know? I think the main reason my time is so much higher is because of skill difference than anything else really. However, if I notice that there is a substantial difference in category times, I'll make the new category.

 
  drgrumbledrgrumble

Thanks Jason. I think a very strict / traditional definition for 100% would be "collect everything" which would include the swords etc, but on the other hand it is up to the runners to set the rules. The only reason I defined it as all treasures / achievements to begin with was because xEarthx asked for that expressly, but he hasn't as yet done any runs.

An alternative for defining 100% would be to obtain 100% per the in game percentage counter (where you load the save file). I think (I may well be wrong) that percentage is based on getting all treasures, visiting all areas and killing all bosses. The benefit in using that as the rule would be easy verification, as the runner could be asked to show their save file after ending the run, showing the 100%.

Edit: Actually not sure at all about the 100% in game percentage as I have a save just before the last boss with 95% even though I have missed quite a few treasures and areas, so likely that percentage merely tracks storyline progress.

 
  JasonAce13JasonAce13

That is partially true, but I had a file that beat the game with 99% on it. I finally got 100% when I got the achievement "Explorer". Not sure if you can get 100% without some achievements, but I think you can. If you can, then we should probably should change the rules of the category to reflect what the game sees as 100%. I'll have to play around with that once I get some more time.

 
  drgrumbledrgrumble

Jason, in case it is of interest, the developer Ville replied to my query of how the in game progression counter is calculated:

"To get 100%, you need to 1) complete all the quests (quest completion is indicated by the text dialog in the menu getting dimmed), 2) collect all the treasures, and 3) visit every level, except for the hidden easter egg level with the ghost dog. The last part of the requirement is a bit tricky because it also includes all the levels that don't have a separate node on the map, specifically all the houses in all the towns and all the levels in the Great Caves where there can be several levels per map node."

Given the above, would you like the rules for the 100% category to be adjusted to fit the in game counter? It would no longer be necessary to get all the achievements, which would make the grind for the 999 coin achievement unnecessary, and verification would simply require making it a rule that the player show in their video the save file after game completion. The change would make a lot of sense to me but I don't run that category so your call.

 
  JasonAce13JasonAce13

I am conflicted. While I think that Saying 100% on the end screen would be simple and makes sense, it also doesn't make sense not to get every achievement, and completing all quests invalidates all of the interesting skips that you have potential to do. I will have to test this out and get some outside opinions from other runners.