Well, another controversy: I just rejected the Waxpro's Story Mode run ( https://www.speedrun.com/stk/run/mexed13z ) because
- It is forbidden to use the "Show everyone's items" as they give you an "unfair advantage that could help you get better times" (for example, you could see if you can slipstream an Ai if you know that it does not have a Bowling Ball, which can help you a lot to break through more easily at start)
- It is a bit subtle, but the game was not properly reset, so in his run, the Challenge Completed Skip from the previous canceled run was in effect and used before the first Gp Skips, which also gives a save of a few s. It is reasonable to think that this should not be allowed, and I am going to add a line in the 1.0 Story Mode rules.
I wonder if Git code was used, or if the Show Other's Items was separately added.
Really really sorry Waxpro, but rules are the rules... I could also accept and add like 30 s penalty time, but did not feel like to do so. But hopefully it will just motivate you to make an even better run :D !
I think his run should be accepted because the "show everyone's items" feature is a normal feature for 1.1. As for the reset, this is also fine in my opinion. You're still starting at the official "beginning" of the game. You're just setting it up in an advantageous way. Think of it like before 1.0 when tracks could be pre-loaded into the RAM before running for faster load times.
Does anyone else agree? In this case, we could change the rules such that anything between 1.0 and 1.1 is acceptable (which would also allow to use Xr591 with new skips). In other words, change 1.0 to 1.x
I should start a lawyer career, hopefully I am not too annoying by being very strict regarding the rules Lol
From my understanding that's how Alayan wants it and I would agree: 1.1 and 1.0 are kept in the same category speedrun-wise (and also any Git version in between). 1.1 has some advantages like the "show everyone's items" feature and the expanded checklines, but nothing too major.
And don't worry, it'a good to be strict with the rules. Otherwise there is too much subject to debate. ;)
Yeah, also having a 1.x category would avoid to have to treat many cases... I just want to get some more feedback before changing 1.0 to 1.x. However, I still think that the game should be reset properly. Runs should not be impacted by previous ones, imagine if there were possible to start a game with the Final Challenge unlocked or so due to some weird bug... Yes, we can preselect the kart, but at least this can be done after resetting the profile (and might not even save 0.1 s if you put the cursor at the right place). Maybe the preloading was a good technique in the past, but the rules were also fuzzy. And at least you did not have to do a part of a run to be able to preload...
Yeah but in this case it would be allowable for Any% and we would need to add a new category or just a new rule that bans this Lol In console games, it is the same, a previous game should never influence the current run in any way Maybe they should add a "Reset Profile" button that resets properly a profile Lol. What I was always doing is to delete the previous profile, restart Stk and create a new one. I am Ok with adding penalty times as throwing away a full run for this is pretty harsh, and Waxpro would eventually hate me Lol
My idea was to keep 1.0 and 1.1 compatible for story mode and time-trials, to avoid getting new categories too often. That way, runners don't have to redo again and again almost the same runs. There has been a few subtle changes (some expanded checklines mostly) and the "show items" feature, but I think it's ok.
"the Challenge Completed Skip from the previous canceled run was in effect and used before the first Gp Skips, which also gives a save of a few s."
Mind explaining a bit ? (I haven't watched his run)
"It is reasonable to think that this should not be allowed, and I am going to add a line in the 1.0 Story Mode rules."
I agree. Getting an advantage from a previous run should be forbidden, because 1) it's impossible to get this when starting normally 2) it forces runners to go through a long and annoying set-up process before being able to start runs, in order to not miss out on the saved seconds.
I'd be ok with a small penalty time, just make sure it's bigger than the saved time. If it saves say 5 seconds, put 10s penalty ?
Ok, in this case I am going to change 1.0 to 1.x. Changes are indeed minor, unlike 0.9.2 -> 0.9.3 which basically removed all Off Road Iirc...
"Mind explaining a bit ?" : normally, when you end a race, you get the "Challenge Completed" screen, which is unskippable (we can only make it end faster). But for some reason, once you used a Gp Skip, this screen is not longer appearing, and instead the race restarts. And it is faster to make the race restart and then quickly quit it via the menu and come back to the Overworld. The problem is that this behavior continues despite starting from a new profile if you did not restart Stk, so you can use the exploit the first 5 races that you do before the first Gp, which is not possible in a truly clean run.
The "Challenge Completed" cinematic takes like 1.7 s if we mash buttons, but one can quit via the other way in an arbitrarily low time if the runner were really quick. As we can save up to ~2 s each time (in practice it would be more like 1-1.5 s, the time to open the menu and click the "Exit Race" button), we can apply a 2 s penalty each time it is used (so 10 s in his run)
Changed 1.0 to 1.x.
Added in the General Rules: "Penalty times can also be applied instead of a rejection in a case-by-case basis and will be clearly shown in the submission's description." "For multiple version categories (0.9.0-0.9.2 or 1.x), you are however allowed to use any official code or assets that are contained by the version range (unless some code or asset that was quickly fixed later broke something that would give the runner a significant advantage). So you can for example use Git code and features that came after the 1.0 release and until the latest 1.x release." (this also means: no code between 1.2 and 2.0, assuming that 1.2 is the latest 1.x version) Removed: "Runs that used git code can still be accepted if it is reasonable to think that no gameplay change was introduced in it compared to the release, but again please ensure that you are using the right code." (now redundant with the new paragraph, it covered another Waxpro's case that is still covered by the new rule, and I suppose that we will have a 2.x category in the far future...)
And 1.x Story Mode: "You must reset the game properly such that the run happens like you were starting STK from scratch. In particular, the Challenge Completed Skip must not happen until you do a GP Skip" There were no such reset issue in other versions so I did not put this in the General Rules.
Finished the Waxpro's run verification and applied the new rules by accepting it and adding 10 s of penalty time.
10 seconds of penalty time???? That's a little excessive, isn't it? The "race restart" bug doesn't save that much time! On the other hand, I didn't understand your story about resetting the game.
10 s is just 0.32% of your run so actually pretty nice... We are considering the time that you could have saved, and of course as a penalty time, it was going to be even more... Are you not happy that it is still Sub 52 :p ? The issue was that you need to restart Stk before starting a new run, because the Challenge Completed Skip Bug is still active until you properly reset Stk, and you must not be able to use this exploit until it happens "normally" only after the first Gp Skips. In the 3 other runs, this was done properly, or the player made sure to not use this exploit (which is also an acceptable alternative if you are too lazy to restart Stk). Here, the bug happened before the first Gp...
Restart STK ? --> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y7b8VeKHmdkElZ89amPyH8KfFUwktEXv Comment dire...
Lol it is indeed cumbersome but I actually resetted each time properly when I ran the game. Next needed feature would be a simple "Reset Profile" button... (However you should restart before creating the new profile, not after, else of course you will have created a new profile for nothing :p )
In 1.1 rc-1 it seems that the "Challenge Completed" skip can be used normally from the first challenge without having to reset anything.
