Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters Forum  /  All major quests category discussion
  happycamper_happycamper_

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AMQ (all major quests)

I want to establish "all major quests" as a new category. As the name indicates it is not what I'd call a "100%" run, but I'd like to discuss this in the end of the post. I would like to have some feedback what you think would be proper.
The objectives in short are:
1. Collect at least 1 of all items with purpose
2. Alien-relations: Meet with all aliens in conversation or combat. Create alliances where possible & keep them alive (Pkunk, Zoq-Fot-Pik).
3. Complete the game (destroy the Sa-Matra)
In the end I want the rules to be as strict as necessary, but also as simple as possible to keep them comprehensible.

ad 1.
• see https://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/List_of_devices for a list of items of the game
• only Wimbli's Trident & Glowing Rod would not be needed
• the 2nd & 3rd Deep Children Fragments can be skipped as only 1 is needed for it's 'purpose'
• needed items: Aqua Helix, Clear Spindle, Rosy Sphere, Ultron, Burvixese HyperWave Broadcaster, 1x Deep Child Egg Case Fragment, Moon Base, QuasiSpace Portal Spawner, Sun Device, Syreen Shuttle, Taalo Shield, Talking Pet, Umgah HyperWave Broadcaster, Ur-Quan Warp Pod, Utwig Bomb, VUX Beast

ad 2.
• Relations are explained here: https://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/New_Alliance_of_Free_Stars
• Alliances are possible with: Arilou, Chmmr, Orz, Pkunk, Shofixti, Spathi, Supox, Syreen, Thraddash, Utwig, Yehat Rebels, Zoq-Fot-Pik
• Some of these will provide you schematics for their ships to build them at the human star base. Others will give you ships under certain circumstances.
• The Melnorme won't commit to an alliance, but help in their 'neutral' tradesman-fashion. Meet with them at least once and trade something (point of discussion?)
• The Sylandro help in their own way in getting rid of their mistake with the probes. Complete this side-quest (point of discussion?)
• The Umgah give you ships if you visit their planet after you free them. But in the same conversation they will deny you the alliance. (While I did that in the 'proof of concept' run, I'd say it is not needed for AMQ.)
• The Druuge trade you their ships, but won't form an Alliance.

I uploaded a proof of concept run here:


I missed one thing which is essential. Retrieving the Umgah Caster from the Spathi after they leave. As I'd set the rules this would be mandatory for the category.

Points of discussion

You are of course welcome to question everything. Some points I haven't made my mind set yet are:
• Make it mandatory to meet with the Melnorme at least once and trade something?
• Should it be mandatory to resolve the quest of the Sylandro?
• Make it mandatory to retrieve the Umgah ships after freeing them from the Talking Pet? (currently not mandatory)

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100%

100% in my opinion is a completing the game to the "fullest". Which would indicate to leave little to nothing remaining to be completed. So I'd say in a true 100% run you'd have to visit all the rainbow worlds, get all the technology & history from the Melnorme, get all artifacts (3x Deep children egg cases, Wimbli's Trident?, Glowing Rod?)...
I'd welcome discussion about this, but for the time being I find that category little interesting to run.
 
  RealityReality

I want to keep Melnorme trades out of this because that pretty much automically adds visit all rainbow worlds to the run (since paying with Bio is so much slower than rainbow worlds)

They also aren't that mechanically interesting (text mashing!) Maybe you can argue that the ship upgrade only (they appear on the save/load screen technically) and going through only one trade branch can be done with only 3 rainbow worlds iirc.

Egg Case - is it being considered for its quest use only or must have 1 in inventory at end (because in the any% etc it is used for quest AND sold)

Umgah - I thought getting Umgah ships was pointless, BUT technically you never see the Umgah conversation portrait in any% (even though the Dynarri makes you fight them) - They do also give a 1 time 1000 Bio unit reward in one of the conversations before the gift fight.

Syreen - is the final conversation (post ambush) necessary or same as Any%

Unzervalt - there is an Ur-quan with unique dialog here, but unsure if killing him should be put on the same level as saving the Zoq-Fok-Pik.

Pkunk - Does succesful coronation count as keeping them alive - there sphere of influence still disappears but they still exist in the lore (pre-sa matra cutscene etc)
 
  happycamper_happycamper_
(edited: )

Quote

 I want to keep Melnorme trades out of this because that pretty much automically adds visit all rainbow worlds to the run (since paying with Bio is so much slower than rainbow worlds)

No, it would not require all rainbow worlds, that is optional. But I'm questioning if it should be mandatory to meet with all the aliens... on the other side I think this could be too much for the category and make it too complicated.
Going through 1 trade branch seems interesting and doable with not too much effort. I have to give that some more thought.
Visiting all rainbow worlds & getting all technology is in the 100% category imo.

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Egg Case - is it being considered for its quest use only or must have 1 in inventory at end (because in the any% etc it is used for quest AND sold)

For all the items I consider it mandatory to have them acquired, not in the inventory at the end. Since most of them are used during the quest anyways. So 1x egg case needs to be acquired for the quest, but not be in the inventory in the end.

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 Syreen - is the final conversation (post ambush) necessary or same as Any%

That one I consider mandatory, as before that you only have a 'formal alliance'. But post ambush they commit their ship-designs.

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 Unzervalt - there is an Ur-quan with unique dialog here, but unsure if killing him should be put on the same level as saving the Zoq-Fok-Pik.

As far as I'm aware this conversation doesn't change anything relevant to the alliances nor the items. The Ur-Quan also doesn't want to kill the humans on the planet, it only guards the slave-shielded planet.

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 Pkunk - Does succesful coronation count as keeping them alive - there sphere of influence still disappears but they still exist in the lore (pre-sa matra cutscene etc)

Interesting topic: I'd say it counts for them being alive as we hear it in the pre Sa-Matra cutscene -> since it's pretty much canon that the Pkunk are absorbed into the Yehat you don't need to stop that (since you can only delay that, not really stop it).
A side note to that: the Yehat will claim that a Pkunk is their new queen even if the absorption hasn't happend yet and you can see the Pkunk sphere of influence still on the starmap.

edit:
about the Umgah -> still unsure how to handle that. I think it would be sad to not interact with all the aliens. But well, that can still be a selling point for 100% I guess 😉
 
  happycamper_happycamper_

Upon pondering a bit I've come to the conclusion that I've been overeager & skipped an important step.
I guess it makes more sense to define a 100% category first. Then it would make more sense to come up with a category in between any% & 100% -> all major quests.

So I'll be coming up with a concept for 100% first. I'll then do some routing & make a concept run. Then I'll open another thread in this forum to discuss 100% before returning to the discussion about all major quests.

Even though I think 100% won't be much fun to run, but that is my own opinion 😃
 
  happycamper_happycamper_

After working out the 100%-route and running it once I do have to say I misjudged the category quite a bit. For one it does not take as long as I expected (roughly 2 hours). Also the rainbow worlds are actually not too much of a detour, well some of them at least.

Also in the discussion with @Cad225Cad225 he mentioned a different method to distinguish sub-categories.

So I took some time to ponder about these inputs and came to the conclusion that I'll bury my idea of "All Major Quests" for now. Instead I have added the sub-categories "all items" and "all alliances" for any% and I'll continue to work on the 100% rules to add it in the near future.
Let me know what you think about this.
 
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