Forums  /  Speedrunning  /  Mr krabs overdoses on ketamine game submission rejected (Locked)
  WalgreyWalgrey
(edited: )

Feel free to read the point that @TimmiluvsTimmiluvs brought up on this exact thread (that I linked at least 3 times already). https://www.speedrun.com/speedrunning/thread/qzjmc/1#bb55d

If a new speedrunning website is really what you want, by all means, feel free to create one yourself.

 
  LaxxusLaxxus

If it takes the fun out of speedrunning that a game has no leaderboard here and you only speedrun to have a "great" number on a board here, then I would question my reasons and motivation for speedrunning.

HakoHako, SymysterySymystery and 2 others like this. 
  TimmiluvsTimmiluvs
(edited: )

Edit: I found the post from Shiken I mention here
https://www.speedrun.com/the_site/thread/if9ib/1#ph23x

There is a post from Shiken that I wish I had handy, where they mention this point, but everyone also needs to remember that every game added to the site comes with a real cost of maintenance on the side of site staff. There are millions of games out that that can made with mostly open sourced tools and very little knowledge of game development, and if every single game was added to this site, not only would the space required for those LBs cost money and servers, it would cost a huge of time to maintain from a content perspective.

Site staff maintain the LBs on this site, every time an LB is added, it comes with the maintenance cost that site staff needs to get involved to resolve issues like inactive mods. Look at how busy the mod request thread is currently. Now imagine if the number of games doubled overnight, that thread would be flooded with even more issues than already seen. This hobby is extremely transient, people come and go all the time and leave boards un-modded that now need to maintained by site staff so that a new mod can be appointed. And I’m sure the content mods do even more work than just approving games, and this is just one example of the work being done.

Even though this site is now owned by an actual company, the maintenance of the site still falls on volunteers, and right now, the site cannot afford the person-power required to add every game in existence to the site. So, they have rules in place to limit the games the accept to reduce the cost of maintaining this site for everyone and every LB.

I feel like this point is often lost in threads like this when it’s argued “it’s just a website, why can’t you just add the game”. One day this site might get better and have more dedicated help to maintain the content, but until then, it’s still a volunteer effort and those volunteers can only do so much. So the unfortunate thing is that right now, it’s just not possible to add every game, and the staff have been trusted with the discretion to enforce the rules.

QuivicoQuivico, HakoHako and 8 others like this. 
  pizza4freepizza4free
(edited: )

If speedrun.com doesn’t want to have this game, that’s fine. But it obviously has an active community, so we need to create a document or something to keep the official leaderboard.

Edit: Sorry I accidentally posted this more than once

ckellyeditsckellyedits likes this. 
  ssurt_ssurt_

just make a website specifically for MKOOK, TMNF did it, why can’t MKOOK

IvoryIvory likes this. 
  Lieutenant_BooLieutenant_Boo

In addition to everything Timm said with maintenance, there's also the cost on the servers that run the site. There really isn't space and processing power to store leaderboards for every game with what's being bought by people doing this as a service to the community.

 
  JamarleyJamarley

@WalgreyWalgrey @rm
Personally this sounds pretty gate-keepy to me. Who cares if the speedrun is only 20 seconds long, all it takes for any speedrun to become this short is to find a credits warp and we're there.
The only thing that should define whether a game is considered worthy of a speedrun leaderboard in my eyes is if people actually run the damn thing. And for this game this is DEFINITELY true. There's capacity wasted on this website for runs no one has even done yet, Assassins Creed Valhalla comes to mind. There's thousands of games with literally nobody running it, yet the games that are just short but have an incredibly active and competitive community don't get their own leaderboard. I really do not see any reason for this, the short games elsewhere on the platform irregardless of rule changes is just the icing on the cake.

loiloiloiloiloiloi, FacuGOLAZOFacuGOLAZO and 2 others like this. 
  PearPear

@JamarleyJamarley That Assassin’s Creed game was only added about a month and a half ago, and it looks like they’re still figuring out strats in the forums, so it makes sense to me that they might not have any runs on the leaderboard yet.

 
  JamarleyJamarley

@PearPear Okay then replace it with Oddysee. 3 runs on the board, amazing. Tons more examples of games that literally have all but 2 runners, 0 interest in the game and 0 runs in recent history. But just the prospect of being a tripple A release merrits the existence of its own leaderboard? Despite the AC games being notoriously boring runs? Why are they on here? Again if that example doesn't suffice take any number of games that have next to no activity and almost 0 runs posted.
Krabs has a big community, frequent new optimizations, and anybody can pick it up. There is 0 reason for it not having a leaderboard other than gatekeeping in my eyes. I still don't see "it's too short" as a valid reason

loiloiloiloiloiloi, FacuGOLAZOFacuGOLAZO and 2 others like this. 
  starsmileystarsmiley

I don't understand why you're still arguing. It's not being added, no matter how much debating you do.

loiloiloiloiloiloi, EmeraldAlyEmeraldAly and 5 others like this. 
  JamarleyJamarley

@starsmileystarsmiley That doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to voice our discontent about this decision.

loiloiloiloiloiloi, FacuGOLAZOFacuGOLAZO and 2 others like this. 
  WalgreyWalgrey

No one's saying that you're not allowed. We're just saying that it won't be added.

loiloiloiloiloiloi, HakoHako and 3 others like this. 
  starsmileystarsmiley

I won't say I understand wanting to continue debating and disagreeing on a decision that will not be reversed, but if that's your desire, feel free to.

loiloiloiloiloiloi, EmeraldAlyEmeraldAly and 5 others like this. 
  dlloyd10dlloyd10

@BleezusBleezus I am making a speedrun website but I haven't worked on it hard yet. So feel free to look at it. It still looks crappy by the way lol.

 
  Bob-chickenBob-chicken

@dlloyd10dlloyd10 how do people know what it is if they dont have a link.

loiloiloiloiloiloi, kennolikennoli and 3 others like this. 
  komio223komio223

It makes me sad that MKOdOK won't be added to this site... It is genuinely one of my favorite games to speedrun and I spent so much time speedrunning the game. The thing with this situation is that the mods, on the community discord server, are having a lot of issues updating the leaderboards, and having the game on src would fix that problem, I'm sure. It would also help people find the discord, as it is usually on the left side of the screen on here. Also, it would make it clear where our times are placed so that there won't be people always claiming to have a world record even though they are 1.5 seconds off (I'm referring to people always putting WR in their youtube titles for clout, I assume). I do understand this game's situation though and I know it won't be added no matter what anybody says, but I still hope that, if we can't have our speedruns here on this site, we can at least find an alternative that's better than the one we have at the moment.

FacuGOLAZOFacuGOLAZO likes this. 
  DacredDacred

Yeah im really not seeing any good arguments in here why this game shouldn't be accepted and neither do i expect anything to change trough my comment btw. Sure, its the staff with all the power to make the decisions, the site is run privately and just saying "no" repeatedly seems to work fine for the mods but consequently ruling out the users request based on rules you cant even follow yourself completely without the option for discussion, voting and participation just seems like really poor taste to me.
That and just oppressive
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FacuGOLAZOFacuGOLAZO likes this. 
  DacredDacred

Yeah im really not seeing any good arguments in here why this game shouldn't be accepted and neither do i expect anything to change trough my comment btw. Sure, its the staff with all the power to make the decisions, the site is run privately and just saying "no" repeatedly seems to work fine for the mods but consequently ruling out the users request based on rules you cant even follow yourself completely without the option for discussion, voting and participation just seems like really poor taste to me.
That and just oppressive
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FacuGOLAZOFacuGOLAZO likes this. 
  PearPear

“Based on rules you can’t even follow yourself”

Care to cite an example?

“Completely without the option for discussion”

What is this thread then, if not discussion? You also mentioned voting; there has been no official vote, of course, but I’ve definitely seen a lot more people supporting the decision to not have this game added than those who do want it added.

HakoHako, IvoryIvory and 2 others like this. 
  DacredDacred

I actually don't care much about the game itself but about how the topic was handled and I refer to the games that were added in spite of the under 10 minutes rule in the last months. Like this for example: https://www.google.com/doodles/halloween-2020
And while i do agree that “Completely without the option for discussion” was wrong in that this thread is a discussion, a discussion without the option for any change at all is what i have problem with and what i was trying to say because a discussion with the end result set by one party beforehand is really pointless.

And at least in this thread i didn't see the majority of support you were talking about. I saw actually a couple of pretty good arguments from the pro and a lot of stubbornness from the against side for example:

"This is all just for fun. When you start selectively governing a community like this, yeah it becomes a lot less fun. Centralization in general takes the fun out of fun things."
-Bleezus

"I don't understand why you're still arguing. It's not being added, no matter how much debating you do."
-starsmiley

Maybe im missing something but that seems really unfriendly to me.
Im seriously wondering if im wrong so tell me if i am and why but saying something like that doesn't seem very friendly.
My problem is the inconsistency in approved games without the option for any kind of meaningful participation or change by the community and the utter lack of any apparent willingness or even consideration of ever changing it in the future. It would be a different story if the rule would be a set and consistent "No games under 10 minutes" (even though i personally wouldn't like that either) or if there would be a option for participation or at least some kind of sympathy/cooperation instead of blocking arguments with "it's our decision".

borisasaurusborisasaurus, loiloiloiloiloiloi and 3 others like this.