Forums  /  Speedrunning  /  "Timer starts upon taking control"--why?
  kobepilgrimkobepilgrim
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@emeraldaly

It is much easier to start livesplit at an exact point of confirmation than at first input. First input is ¤pretty much¤. A point of confirmation actually can be exact. In cases where confirmation and starting the split can't be assigned to the same button, the player is at least able to press two buttons simultaneously without needing to eyeball the first input, and without needing to immediately move from one task to another, possibly interfering with the first moments of gameplay. "Point of confirmation" is clearly better in terms of accuracy and having greater facility at first input, but it's inconsequential if accuracy isn't a concern.

Even first input can be exact, by using a precise delay, but that can be somewhat muddled. Metal Slug starts on first input, but there is a point before first input where the player can drop the character into action faster than the default. In such a situation, whoever creates the rules would need to establish that it starts with first input, to use a delay, and to wait for the character's default action to play out. It's more economical to simply state a starting point, whether it be first input or a confirmation.

 
  EmeraldAlyEmeraldAly

Nah, I don't buy that. If starting at new game select can be that precise, then so can first input. They're exactly the same. In both cases, you press a button on your controller and on your keyboard (or a foot pedal or something, if that's how you split) at the same time. That's the same thing.

 
  kobepilgrimkobepilgrim
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I think we're describing different things. For example, if I start Super Mario Bros., the game starts, and the timer starts (the one that counts down in the game), then that is the first moment that you have control. Livesplit should start at that moment. Regardless of whether you actually make an input, the game has started. If a few seconds go by and then you press forward while starting the split, then that is a late split--according to what I'm describing. If that is considered fair, then I must have the wrong idea. In many games, things are already happening in-game, at that point. Whether or not you make an input, you have still been given control of the character.

So yes, a player can split at the same time as the first input, but if that occurs after the player is given control, then it is a late split. Also, if a player needs to make an input or series of inputs that involve both hands (running forward and shooting the first enemy on screen, for example), then splitting with one hand can be problematic.

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  EmeraldAlyEmeraldAly

So it would seem. When I say "first input" I mean the actual first input you do. So far, no one in any of my runs (lel, the idea of other people running the same games I do) has had issue with the game world having the opportunity to exist before the first input. I can see why it could matter, some games have RNG manipulation based on how long you linger at the title screen (or some damn thing) but even then, any timing method is fair as long as it's the same for everyone.

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  kobepilgrimkobepilgrim
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Right on. When I say "first input", I'm assuming that the timer starts when the game starts and that the player would want to make the first input as soon as the game starts. Sorry for the confusion. I thought we were speaking on the precedent of games that start timing upon taking control of the character.

 
  LivLiv
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It's always better to just early split and re-time in first input runs. Particularly in runs where player takes control is the start point, as everyone always 'gains' control on the same frame.

Then again, I would hope the majority of runs submitted with such a ruleset on timing are re-timed.

kobepilgrimkobepilgrim likes this. 
  kobepilgrimkobepilgrim

Yeah, I always end up re-timing. I would hope that the majority of others do as well, but I've seen enough people who don't :-/

It's not a big deal to me, as long as I uphold my personal standards, and as long as it isn't blatant.