Forums  /  Speedrunning  /  Why is physical relay not allowed but strategic relay is? (Locked)
  NjoammilNjoammil

I have seen that in some popular games like Super Mario Bros. 3 the word record holder is using TAS video as a relay. This is allowed. I have also seen that someone has used voice chat during a run and some other person has guided the player through the run. That is relay as well and it's allowed. However for some reason, playing a game with two players by switching the controller during the run is not allowed. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Using the controller by yourself is not the only thing that matters during a run. You also have to think and have strategies so it's pretty weird to me that having relay in those things is allowed but not the controller one.

Some time ago I made a world record in The Smurfs and the moderator was very against it and so were many other people. I don't even know why. The site rules say nothing about switching controller to be against the rules, the NES game rules say nothing about that as well.

Why is there a double standard here? Why can't I run games with two people with a controller but I can run by guiding and telling everything to the other player. There's no difference to me.

I could compare this to orienteering. Using a GPS on your phone shouldn't matter because nobody is phyiscally there moving your body to the goal. Do you get what I'm saying?

 
  NjoammilNjoammil

Another example is when you are playing a quiz game like Who Wants To Be a Millionaire. Are you telling me that someone can tell you the answer as long as they aren't physically touching the answer button for them?

 
  WalgreyWalgrey

I'm confused. Are you asking why are you aren't allowed to give the controller to someone else mid-run?

 
  NjoammilNjoammil

Yes, I am.

 
  ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets
(edited: )

There is no double standard, this is a false equivalence. Guiding someone through something and literally doing it for them are two completely different and not comparable things for incredibly obvious reasons.

Also good luck banning any form of logical/strategic guidance in the world of Twitch streaming.

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  NjoammilNjoammil

You do realize there are different type of games? Quiz games and mathematic games require knowledge much more than control input.

And another thing, There's no way you can prove that two players are playing just like you can't prove that someone is guiding you or giving you correct answers to quizes/math equations IF you are not using a microphone/webcam.

 
  Oreo321Oreo321

Yes, but Quiz and Math games are not the typical games you can speedrun or find on the site.
(And if you do find games like that, they are the exception to the rule).

 
  NjoammilNjoammil

@Oreo321Oreo321 Puzzle games or many strategic games as well. Those are not exceptional games.

 
  ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets
(edited: )

Originally posted by LPSdynamiksiQuiz games and mathematic games require knowledge much more than control input

They actually require both. Optimally the player holding the controller needs to know this information or be able to do the math quickly or whatever, having someone tell you the answer is actually pretty slow compared to being able to do it yourself.

Also, as with just about everything, every game and community gets to make their own decision on this. Most singleplayer games are, quite understandably, not looking to track relay/co-op runs, because the vast majority of players on those games are going to be solo. It's not strictly forbidden, it's just highly uncommon.

Originally posted by LPSdynamiksiThere's no way you can prove that two players are playing

You can if they're idiots that get themselves caught.

In any case, this on its own is a pretty stupid reason to allow something. There are plenty of things you could theoretically do that are totally cheating and should never be allowed, but would be extremely difficult to prove in practice (not gonna give any examples here because I don't want to give anyone any ideas).

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  NjoammilNjoammil
(edited: )

You don't get it, do you? If solving the math/puzzle problem was so easy to do by yourself then why do people do it? And it doesn't matter if it's faster. It is relay and people do it and it shouldn't be allowed.

Yes, that's what I am saying. It is impossible to prove that someone is guiding you so that's why it is allowed. Same should go for the controller switch. And please don't straw man me with saying that I would allow TAS runs.

I know, you have already made up your mind and you will never change it no matter what. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of this site.

 
  ShikenNuggetsShikenNuggets
(edited: )

Originally posted by LPSdynamiksiI just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of this site

I was happy to provide more counter-arguments to explain my stance here but you're clearly just trolling, or you're still upset that you got caught cheating that one time and decided to take it out on the forums here, or whatever, but this discussion clearly isn't worth having.

I'll leave this off by saying, again, this is a per-community decision. Has nothing to do with the "hypocrisy of this site" or whatever the hell you're on about, the site itself doesn't enforce this sort of thing.

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