Forums  /  Super Mario Sunshine  /  Min. Jump Category
  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Not too long ago, a man set out to beat SMS jumpless. And while he found it impossible, and after many hours of contemplation, he asked himself, "What's the minimum?"

That "man" was me. I have decided to try to reach out to the moderators of Sunshine's runs through this thread, asking them to consider a Minimum Jump Category under Miscellaneous. It sounds odd, but hear me out.

It's self-explanatory. Complete a run as fast as possible, like any%, but doing very little jumps. The leaderboard placing is weird, but I planned it out like this. You would first consider jumps over time. Meaning: You can get sub 1:50 and 8 jumps, but if someone had sub 2:00, and 5 jumps, the person with fewer jumps would be placed higher. And if one person had a higher time than another, but they had the same number of jumps, obviously, the person with the better time would be placed higher.

I ask y'all moderators to at least consider.

(I can also imagine NokiDoki commenting sometime in the next few days.)

What is and isn't allowed:

Allowed:
Dives
Bail-out
Hover Nozzle
Turbo Nozzle
Spray Nozzle
Ground Pounds
Spinning
Side Steps
Rocket Storage
Water Sliding
Wall Jump

Not Allowed:
Jumps
Double Jumps
Triple Jumps
Spin Jumps
Backflips
Sideflips

 
  samgodro43samgodro43

1) These forums are relatively inactive, if you want to contact a moderator you're better off doing it directly or by asking in the Discord.

2) There's no reason for the mods to add a category that no one has run (and to be quite honest, very few people are likely to run).

Also, I don't know whether you intended to include wall jumps in the "allowed" section, but doing so (in combination with allowing rollouts) removes just about any situation I can think of that would require jumping. For instance, you could escape the box at the start of the Noki 6 secret by just rolling out into a series of wallkicks, which wouldn't be penalized under your ruleset.

NokiDokiNokiDoki likes this. 
  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

1) There are some hoverless categories that have under 10 runners.

2) Super Mario Odyssey has a miscellaneous category that only has like 4 runners and any% has over 1000 runners and for this game any% has around the same amount and some hoverless categories in the miscellaneous section have 10 like i said earlier.

3) Popularity for a category doesn't matter. Even if a category has four runners and another has a thousand.

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  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Hoverless is kind of an exception, there are categories like All Blue Coins and All Red Coins that don’t have their leaderboards on here despite being run more than 58/79/96 hoverless. At the end of the day, you don’t really need an “official” leaderboard to run, even though it gives the category more visibility.

As Sam said, allowing rollouts and wall jumps makes jumpless possible, with a few challenging parts at the end of Pinna 6, Noki 6 and Sirena 2. I’m assuming backflips and sideflips are banned too

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  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Correction, Mr. Sam. You cannot wall-jump out of a bail-out. Also, I include Wall Jumping because I want to play by "Odyssey rules," since Odyssey's Jumpless allows wall jumps.

 
  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Also, there are some levels that are still unbeatable without at least one jump. Two of them being The Hotel Secret and The Shell Secret.

 
  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

This should be called the A button challenge instead of minimum jump challenge. It makes more sense then (it already exists though but mainly TAS so a non-TAS version would be this but instead it restricts pressing the A button).

 
  GrinchSMBGrinchSMB

you actually can wallkick out of a roll out if you slow down your momentum when doing it. idk exactly about sirena 2 but i can see it being possible by using the boo's in a good way. It's pretty unrealistic to bring such a category on the lb's if you ask me. you should ask a mod directly since i'm not sure if the mods check this regualarly. i think this could be a fun run afetr all.

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  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Sirena 2 and Noki 6 can both be beaten jumpless by wallkicking out of rollouts

@TicTacBean The "pure" ABC ruleset would count an A press every time you need to select an episode or save, and a couple strats aren't remotely RTA-viable, I think min jumps/jumpless is more interesting for an RTA run

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  hakuwalkhakuwalk

@NokiDoki Actually, jumpless may still be impossible. The Hotel Secret. It becomes apparent right at the beginning.

The Sandcastle Secret, at the end.

And you can't do Gelato Skip jumpless.

 
  samgodro43samgodro43

I was able to do the start of Sirena 2 by using a rollout to break one of the bricks, then rolling out into wallkicks to climb up. No issue there.

The end of Gelato 1 is actually the easy part to do without A (though I suppose rollouts would simplify things a lot), you just need to do the sand block upwarp to get to the shine.

And you absolutely can do Gelato Skip without jumping, you use a Cataquack to get onto the roof.

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  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

@NokiDoki In order to jump you PRESS the A button and to select a shine you PRESS the A button. BUT WAIT I GOT AN IDEA! HOLD the A button when selecting a shine and not let go of the A button. Remember that there are 3 actions when pressing a button. The press, the hold, and the release. Here's pannenkoek's watch for rolling rocks 0.5x A presses video. This will make a bit more sense after watching the half an A press explanation at the beginning.

 
  samgodro43samgodro43

Holding down the A press from selecting a shine or closing a save prompt doesn't carry over into normal gameplay. If you want to steal terminology from the SM64 A Button Challenge, you can think of them as terminating A presses.

Even if it did, holding A serves very little purpose in SMS. It allows you to flutter off of ledges with Yoshi, but that doesn't really help unless you don't want to count A presses from save prompts and eat the pineapple blocking Sirena rather than doing Sirena early. It also speeds up textboxes fwiw, but that has no bearing on how levels are played.

It's also adorable that you think that Noki hasn't seen ABC videos before

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  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

You know it was an idea right? I just thought about the SM64 A button challenge and wanted to share it here just in case it was a good idea.

It's also adorable you thought that i think that Noki has never watched ABC videos even though i said "Remember that an A press has 3 actions" and clearly i said the word "remember" to Noki as if i think that he has watched ABC videos and said that sentence as a reminder.

 
  NokiDokiNokiDoki

@TicTacBean I do know and remember the 3 parts of an A press but you don't seem to understand them, holding an A press doesn't turn it into a half-press, it only allows you to perform "half-press actions" until it's terminated (which isn't much in SMS)

 
  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

Wow just because i didn't mention something doesn't mean i don't know about it. This is us talking via text not us actually speaking together in person. If i where talking in person i would mention and talk about something more.

 
  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Well idk what you were getting at with half-presses

 
  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

Fair enough point i guess. Also this thread is progressively getting slightly unrelated because imagine this carrying on for a week. It would probably be off topic by then. I do understand it being minimum jumps instead of A button challenge and to be honest having a category really doesn't matter like you said earlier on this thread. So overall there's no real point talking on this thread anymore.

 
  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Actually, there is a point. It helps me and other people understand that many things can be done to make this possible, like what was said above about Gelato Skip and Sirena 2. And this thread gets more off-topic by how you make it.

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  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

This makes me laugh alot lol. Does this guy even know that you press A to jump and jumping is related to this thread? So actually about A presses i'm not off topic. And my last post on this thread it WAS going off topic but after this i'm going to talk about relevant topics.

Also how was i even off topic before? It was me telling Noki that he pointed out a pretty fair point to me so really i wasn't that off topic.