Forums  /  Super Mario series  /  Super Mario Sunshine  /  Min. Jump Category
  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Not too long ago, a man set out to beat SMS jumpless. And while he found it impossible, and after many hours of contemplation, he asked himself, "What's the minimum?"

That "man" was me. I have decided to try to reach out to the moderators of Sunshine's runs through this thread, asking them to consider a Minimum Jump Category under Miscellaneous. It sounds odd, but hear me out.

It's self-explanatory. Complete a run as fast as possible, like any%, but doing very little jumps. The leaderboard placing is weird, but I planned it out like this. You would first consider jumps over time. Meaning: You can get sub 1:50 and 8 jumps, but if someone had sub 2:00, and 5 jumps, the person with fewer jumps would be placed higher. And if one person had a higher time than another, but they had the same number of jumps, obviously, the person with the better time would be placed higher.

I ask y'all moderators to at least consider.

(I can also imagine NokiDoki commenting sometime in the next few days.)

What is and isn't allowed:

Allowed:
Dives
Bail-out
Hover Nozzle
Turbo Nozzle
Spray Nozzle
Ground Pounds
Spinning
Side Steps
Rocket Storage
Water Sliding
Wall Jump

Not Allowed:
Jumps
Double Jumps
Triple Jumps
Spin Jumps
Backflips
Sideflips

 
  samgodro43samgodro43

1) These forums are relatively inactive, if you want to contact a moderator you're better off doing it directly or by asking in the Discord.

2) There's no reason for the mods to add a category that no one has run (and to be quite honest, very few people are likely to run).

Also, I don't know whether you intended to include wall jumps in the "allowed" section, but doing so (in combination with allowing rollouts) removes just about any situation I can think of that would require jumping. For instance, you could escape the box at the start of the Noki 6 secret by just rolling out into a series of wallkicks, which wouldn't be penalized under your ruleset.

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  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

1) There are some hoverless categories that have under 10 runners.

2) Super Mario Odyssey has a miscellaneous category that only has like 4 runners and any% has over 1000 runners and for this game any% has around the same amount and some hoverless categories in the miscellaneous section have 10 like i said earlier.

3) Popularity for a category doesn't matter. Even if a category has four runners and another has a thousand.

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  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Hoverless is kind of an exception, there are categories like All Blue Coins and All Red Coins that don’t have their leaderboards on here despite being run more than 58/79/96 hoverless. At the end of the day, you don’t really need an “official” leaderboard to run, even though it gives the category more visibility.

As Sam said, allowing rollouts and wall jumps makes jumpless possible, with a few challenging parts at the end of Pinna 6, Noki 6 and Sirena 2. I’m assuming backflips and sideflips are banned too

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  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Correction, Mr. Sam. You cannot wall-jump out of a bail-out. Also, I include Wall Jumping because I want to play by "Odyssey rules," since Odyssey's Jumpless allows wall jumps.

 
  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Also, there are some levels that are still unbeatable without at least one jump. Two of them being The Hotel Secret and The Shell Secret.

 
  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

This should be called the A button challenge instead of minimum jump challenge. It makes more sense then (it already exists though but mainly TAS so a non-TAS version would be this but instead it restricts pressing the A button).

 
  GrinchSMBGrinchSMB

you actually can wallkick out of a roll out if you slow down your momentum when doing it. idk exactly about sirena 2 but i can see it being possible by using the boo's in a good way. It's pretty unrealistic to bring such a category on the lb's if you ask me. you should ask a mod directly since i'm not sure if the mods check this regualarly. i think this could be a fun run afetr all.

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  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Sirena 2 and Noki 6 can both be beaten jumpless by wallkicking out of rollouts

@TicTacBean The "pure" ABC ruleset would count an A press every time you need to select an episode or save, and a couple strats aren't remotely RTA-viable, I think min jumps/jumpless is more interesting for an RTA run

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  hakuwalkhakuwalk

@NokiDoki Actually, jumpless may still be impossible. The Hotel Secret. It becomes apparent right at the beginning.

The Sandcastle Secret, at the end.

And you can't do Gelato Skip jumpless.

 
  samgodro43samgodro43

I was able to do the start of Sirena 2 by using a rollout to break one of the bricks, then rolling out into wallkicks to climb up. No issue there.

The end of Gelato 1 is actually the easy part to do without A (though I suppose rollouts would simplify things a lot), you just need to do the sand block upwarp to get to the shine.

And you absolutely can do Gelato Skip without jumping, you use a Cataquack to get onto the roof.

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  samgodro43samgodro43

Holding down the A press from selecting a shine or closing a save prompt doesn't carry over into normal gameplay. If you want to steal terminology from the SM64 A Button Challenge, you can think of them as terminating A presses.

Even if it did, holding A serves very little purpose in SMS. It allows you to flutter off of ledges with Yoshi, but that doesn't really help unless you don't want to count A presses from save prompts and eat the pineapple blocking Sirena rather than doing Sirena early. It also speeds up textboxes fwiw, but that has no bearing on how levels are played.

It's also adorable that you think that Noki hasn't seen ABC videos before

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  NokiDokiNokiDoki

@TicTacBean I do know and remember the 3 parts of an A press but you don't seem to understand them, holding an A press doesn't turn it into a half-press, it only allows you to perform "half-press actions" until it's terminated (which isn't much in SMS)

 
  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Well idk what you were getting at with half-presses

 
  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Actually, there is a point. It helps me and other people understand that many things can be done to make this possible, like what was said above about Gelato Skip and Sirena 2. And this thread gets more off-topic by how you make it.

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  StrongmanLinStrongmanLin

Well this was fun to read. Lots of confidence in an attempt to cover up ignorance.

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  NokiDokiNokiDoki

Anyway, I don't have my Wii rn but I found a few strats before I left.

Noki 1 can be done entirely without bouncing on Glorpedos using rollouts, wallkicks and the pulleys, the hard part is the last series of wallkicks next to the second pulley's wheel. It seems doable but instead, I went to the right at the bottom of the slope and used a rollout, wallkick and hover to reach the spring under the rocket nozzle. From the platform it sends you to, you can just barely waterslide and hover around the cliff to a ledge, then you can either use the other spring or just hover up the last few steps to the mole.

In Sirena 2, the sand block path can be cleared with only dives but that's fairly precise and not really viable. It's also hard to get the spacing right to clear each gap with a rollout, so I start by hanging off the ledge next to the first block, let go, spin-wallkick, dive past the first gap and rollout over the second one. From there I just run up to the next gap, dive-rollout over it, then dive-rollout to the low brick blocks.

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  TicTacBeanTicTacBean

Also i am pretty much ranting on myself heh.

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  hakuwalkhakuwalk

Now here is something I wanna hear: Which levels do y'all know are 110 percent impossible?